Helpful ReplyChanging bpm

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Cpdk2012
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2015/03/29 12:18:57 (permalink)

Changing bpm

ok I have a drummer who plays to fast and refuses to slow it down a tad. We recorded a a song without using a click track. Our song is all over the place tempo wise. Now I want to record my guitars to it but as I said its to fast . I would like to slow it down 5-10 bpm . We do not know the tempo as I would say it's in the 200 area if I had to ball park it. It is a multi track with each drum recorded on its own track. I have sonar 7 producers edition . Can I slow these tracks down With out effecting to pitch?
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    bluzdog
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    Re: Changing bpm 2015/03/29 13:12:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2015/03/29 13:27:56
    Okay the obvious is to re-track with a metronome but if you really want to quantize the drums here's  how to do it:
     
    It’s important that all the edits and cuts happen at the exact same place on each of the multi-tracked drum tracks to maintain phase coherency.
    Make sure they all have the same transient markers. It’s better to chop them up and move the slices around.
    Disable the transient markers on the overheads (right click select all -> right click over a marker and disable). Work with the close mic sounds as the source for establishing transients.
    Select all the drum tracks. Right click on any track, choose merge and lock markers. Little yellow locks will show up on the clips. All the transient markers from all the drum tracks are copied to each drum track. All the drums share identical transient markers.
    The next step is to unlock the clips. Switch back to clip view on all the drum tracks (control + shift + click and select clip). Right click in the background select clip lock and uncheck lock position.
     Switch back to audio transient view. The yellow locks should be off.
    Call up the Audiosnap palette and select split beats to clips. Now that the clips are split you can use the quantize process. Process -> Quantize -> select a note value (1/8th) under resolution and audio clip start times under change. Leave auto Xfade times and fill gap checked ( 20ms and 80ms). Click OK.
    To quantize the guitar to the drums call up the audiosnap palette choose audiosnap beats. Choose note value (16th) click OK.
     
    Rocky
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    Anderton
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    Re: Changing bpm 2015/03/29 13:27:07 (permalink)
    I don't remember what Sonar 7 has but with later versions, you can ctrl-click on the end of a clip and drag it longer to slow the tempo. Make all the drum tracks the same length by slip-editing them, then bounce them to themselves. Now you can stretch their time by the same amount.
     
    But also check out this tip in my tip of the week thread on how to change the tempo of an entire project. Again, not sure if it applies to Sonar 7.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Changing bpm 2015/03/29 13:45:08 (permalink)
    Given my understanding that you're just wanting to record new audio tracks with reference to the drum track, and not trying to align the project to SONAR's timeline, I don't think you need to go through all that in this case. Just enable Audiosnap on all the drum tracks, and click Clip Follows Project with the auto-stretch mode enabled in the drop-down to the right of the button this is the default setting). Then change whatever initial tempo is set in SONAR.
     
    If the tempo is 5-10 BPM too high at 200, and SONAR's tempo is the default 120, the corresponding reduction would be 108-114BPM. SONAR will use its default "Groove Clip" algorithm to stretch the audio. Since you'll be stretching full clips, all by the same ratio, phase changes should not be an issue. You can try bouncing the result to new tracks using the Percussion algorithm, but I usually find that Groove Clip actually provides the best results, and it doesn't need to be bounced down.
     
    EDIT: The drill is pretty much the same in S7, I think, but the default project tempo might be 100, in which case you'd want to change it to somewhere in the 95-97.5 range. Or you could use Set Measure/Beat At Now to set an approximately matching  average tempo for SONAR's timeline, and then change the tempo.
     
     
    post edited by brundlefly - 2015/03/29 13:53:36

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    bluzdog
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    Re: Changing bpm 2015/03/29 15:58:52 (permalink)
    I agree with A&B. The quantize method above is a little intensive but you said the tempo is all over the place and you didn't want to affect pitch.
    I had a song awhile back that was pretty tight but slowed down considerably in the middle 8. Since the drummer, bass player and vocalist weren't available to re-track I used the above to get the drums and bass right, re-tracked guitars and moved the vocals to fit. You may want to do some 'save as' projects and try different solutions.
     
    Rocky
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