Advice on midi recording on netbook

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northernsoundscapes
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2015/03/30 17:24:35 (permalink)

Advice on midi recording on netbook

I am looking for some advice.
I would like to continue doing a bit of recording when I am away from home during the week, on my netbook.
In fact its not that important to be able to do much audio, just being able to edit & record midi would be great. What do I need?
 
I have a Windows 8 netbook and I’ve installed Sonar x2 on it. Do I need any external sound modules etc or can I actually play and record midi sounds internally via software somehow? I have got a mini usb keyboard of course.
 
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    John
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/30 23:29:35 (permalink)
    Soft synths are for this sort of thing. TTS-1 is a good synth to get you started.You can use headphones to monitor with your built in sound chip. 

    Best
    John
    #2
    Paul P
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/30 23:41:42 (permalink)
     
    To record midi, you'll need a virtual midi keyboard.  There are some free ones and some cheap ones on the net.  I use Chirp.  It looks like a midi keyboard to Sonar, but you play it with your mouse or PC keyboard.
     
    This is not a great way to make music, but ok if you're traveling light and just want to try out some simple stuff.
     
     

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    #3
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/30 23:58:41 (permalink)
    My daughter tossed out her 2007 Sony Laptop Vista 5200 RPM drive etc. 
    I re-purposed it to a Sonar travel and mobile recording workstation. New Evo 250 GB SSD, added more RAM and installed W7 64 bit. So far it's running great.  I still bring my Scarlett 6i6 with me as I can't stand fighting with none ASIO drivers in Sonar. I am thinking of buying a Scarlett Solo for travel so I don't have to unplug the 6i6 from it's umbilical of studio wires. The Solo is also bus powered, something I don't recommend for the studio, but would be perfect for a hotel room with only one A/C outlet. 
     
     Was not planing on buying this but it was on clearance for $49 Can.  All you need to sit under a palm tree and work on some midi tracks. Ya it's made for a iPoo but I will use the docking tray to store guitar picks. 
        http://www.akaipro.com/product/synthstation25   

    post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/03/31 00:05:03

    Johnny V  
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    #4
    Paul P
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 10:00:03 (permalink)
    Cactus Music
    Ya it's made for a iPoo but I will use the docking tray to store guitar picks. 

     
    Are you saying this thing can be used as a usb midi keyboard without an ipod or iphone docked ?
     
    The documentation seems to imply that one or the other is required, that it 'turns your phone' into a keyboard.
     

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    #5
    mettelus
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 12:44:37 (permalink)
    Near the end of the video it says it is a USB midi controller as is (and can use a docked device as a sound module).

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    northernsoundscapes
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 17:10:57 (permalink)
    Definitely TTS-1 then? Couldn't I use something like Cool Soft Virtual Midi synth, I just tried that and I can't seem to connect to it - it doesn't show up as a soft synth.
    #7
    northernsoundscapes
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 17:26:52 (permalink)
    In fact I am not getting any sound and get this error message
    Audio Driver Error
    The following drivers either do not support the current
    audio format or are in use by another application
    please choose whether you want to disable them or use them anyway
    IntelSST Audio Wave for IHF[WaveRT]
    IntelSST Audio Wave for DMIC[WaveRT]
     
    whatever I do I get no sound - so does this mean the sound card I get with the netbook is basically no good for this kind of thing?
     
     
     
     
    #8
    mettelus
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 18:50:16 (permalink)
    If that is an onboard sound chip (it seems it is), many only "support" 16-bit playback. I have found that laptops typically playback (not record) best in either WDM (preferred) or MME driver mode. For work with MIDI recording or playback this can be adequate, but for audio recording is not ideal.
     
    If you go to Preferences->Audio->Playback and Recording, if already set to WDM there, go to Preferences->Audio->Driver Settings and click the "Wave Profiler" button at the bottom. If not WDM, can set it in Playback and Recording and the Wave Profiler should start automatically. Check the output of that profile and it may only pass for 16-bit.
     
    SONAR should then adjust accordingly, but is always good to double-check the top three Preferences->Audio tabs (on the left). The entry that is most important is Preferences->Audio->Driver Settings->"Audio Driver Bit depth" may need to be at 16. SONAR plays the "middle man" to ensure the digital output of the projects matches the playback mode/driver settings for you (i.e. a 24-bit project will still play this way). You may also need to fiddle with the "Buffer Size" slider to get best latency for what you are doing.
    post edited by mettelus - 2015/03/31 18:57:55

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 19:36:37 (permalink)
    Like I said, when I try and use Sonar without an ASIO driver it is just not worth it. You'll waste day's fighting an uphill battle. I know there are a few folks who have made it work but myself never. I can play songs in MME mode but forget any attempt to record midi or audio in sync. It will drop out all the time too. And I tried asio4all a long way back and that is not a good idea if you also use a real ASIO interface as well. Once you install asio4all it contaminates your set up. Go buy a Scarlett Solo.  
     
    The little Akai  keyboard works great. Small keys with a different feel than what I'm used to, It is certainly not a piano.  I got used to it fast enough and have laid down Organ for 3 songs as well as some drum stuff. 
     
    The iPoo dock is only a feature. It's also a basic usb controller. And there's no driver for it, plug and play. Absolutely no latency. 

    Johnny V  
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    #10
    mettelus
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/03/31 20:10:06 (permalink)
    I have never tested the latency for MIDI->VSTi-->Onboard audio out before, so wanted to check this. I have only used the WDM for work that required no tracking (recording) at all, but thought this would be good to "stress test."
     
    Here is the setup used: 
    1. Shifted SONAR to WDM mode (using the 16-bit out on the onboard Realtek)
    2. Input via a Roland A-300 PRO
    3. VSTi used was Dimension Pro. I used one of Craig's EB-5 bass samples and started the buffer on the extreme low end (1msec) and bumped it up till it played back correctly.
    Result 1 - On my machine, the 8msec buffer point was where it suddenly changed to the expected sound (below this was rather distorted).
     
    Result 2 - Same test with SI-Bass as the VSTi could be lowered to 6msec buffer.
     
    Result 3 - Same test with TTS-1 as the VSTi was also at the 6msec buffer.
     
    I just wanted to throw this out as a data point, since I actually do not use this setup for recording, but these latencies fall into the "tolerable" range. I got some funky transport start/stop sounds doing an actual tracking test (6msec on the TTS-1), but the notes were timed correctly (which is more the MIDI controller and its drivers than the audio out).
     
    Back to the OP, John's recommendation of TTS-1 should be feasible with what you have now.
    post edited by mettelus - 2015/03/31 20:17:18

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    northernsoundscapes
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/04/03 15:24:21 (permalink)
    I have now reinstalled TTS-1 but I am getting no sound - what do you think might be the problem?
    I have tried inserted a soft synth track. Please could you describe what settings I need?
    #12
    mettelus
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/04/03 15:40:23 (permalink)
    When working with MIDI, a couple things to bear in mind:
    1. MIDI is only note data, so generates no audio.
    2. For a MIDI track to "sound" it must play though a VSTi (or "soft synth").
    3. If a VSTi is inserted, the input can be set to Omni (beware, as this means it will accept ALL MIDI inputs if "echoed"). There are many options to insert a soft synth, a "Simple Instrument Track"  takes MIDI (note) data in and generates audio out... this may be the simplest to start with.
    4. The output should be set to the Master buss (is default).
     
    In your case, verify the input on the TTS-1 is either set to "Omni" or the instrument channel of you specified that input, and "echo" that track.
     
    The TTS-1 is actually capable of playing 16 MIDI channels; but for first time use, this should help.
     
     

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    #13
    shawn@trustmedia.tv
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/04/03 16:29:38 (permalink)
    With most of my old Laptops and NetBooks I installed ASIO4ALL which fixed all sounddriver issues. Dimesnion and Rapture are great soft synths that come with SONAR, also try the cakewalk sound center. I found that Z3TA+2 took up all my resources so be carefull what really advanced VST's you use. So you have and external recrder that is great I assume you have headphones for this venture??? :) The internal soundcard should do anything you want it too ASIO4ALL should work if MME32bit hasn't fixed your driver issues! Be prepared to "FREEZE" your tracks if you run out of CPU Power. I did all my NetBook stuff on an ACER ONE at 1200mhz...yours may be newer and more powerful! GOOD LUCK! -Shawn Lee Farrell
     
     

    Studio SONAR X3. Axiom 25 midi controller, DUNE 2, Producer Content, Good Times, Bandlab Mojo

    #14
    northernsoundscapes
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/04/04 05:45:52 (permalink)
    so when using a soft synth like tts-1 should i see anything in preferences /midi/devices?
    I can 't see anything there at the moment
    I have connected a M-Audio keystation midi and it is recording midi (and that does show in preferences/midi /devices) but i'm getting no output. Do I also need to connect an external mixer maybe to get output? I have also got an M-Audio mixer. I thought i'd just hear it via the netbook soundcard.
     
     
    #15
    57Gregy
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/04/04 09:17:36 (permalink)
    On the track you're recording the keystation on, what is it's output set to?
    It should be something like Microsoft GS Wavetable synth or a software synth that you inserted.
    If you inserted a soft synth, what is the synth track's output set to? It should be your sound card or audio interface.
    If the output is the keystation, you won't hear anything being that the KS is a controller and has no synthesizer in it.
     

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    #16
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Advice on midi recording on netbook 2015/04/04 13:51:36 (permalink)
    I think you missing the one important step and that's all midi tracks   need to output to either a external device or a inserted VST soft synth. Check the output box of your track and set it to the TTs-1 

    Johnny V  
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