A word of thanks to The Bakers

musicroom
I like it - keep those monthly presents coming. We're all the spoiled kids in the daw neighborhood now.

Anderton
The biggest surprise to me has been Platinum's extremely high level of stability. Granted I have a well-tuned computer, but still, I don't think it's just because of the hardware.

Anderton
The biggest surprise to me has been Platinum's extremely high level of stability. Granted I have a well-tuned computer, but still, I don't think it's just because of the hardware.

John

mudgel
Even. though us experienced users seem to be having a very positive experience with Platinum, I can't help but notice the number of new users who are having difficulties. I think this is an area where Cakewlak could put in some more effort.

The number of times I read "I open up Audacity or Reaper or such and such and it just works".

That reflects my experience too. I can install those programs and have my audio interface (an RME UFX) turned on and when the installation is finished I can play back audio and record audio without any other settings having to be changed. Even my onboard audio device is easily setup for replay at least.

That's not the case with Sonar. Even after doing its sound card profiling very rarely does it all work and even when it does it's not setup for ASIO rather WDM or WASAPI.

I think attention in that area would go a long way toward making Sonar more user friendly.

Mike you make a strong point. With profiling Sonar can only work on WDM and the like not ASIO. ASIO is not a Windows driver. 
 
I have had much harder times with other audio programs to work where Sonar has been a breeze to me. Sound Forge is one that can be a beast to work with hardware. 
 
I think the problem is too many new users have their own idea how things are supposed to work. Few ever read the manual or apparently the help file either. Thus we get the post that is based on a misconception. For a program as deep as Sonar is I'm not too sure how CW can improve this problem. For now all we can do is help as best as we can. 
 
Also the very thing that makes Sonar so versatile is the fact that it can use just about any audio driver. Others limit what they will support. How many support Direct X and VST for example. 
 
Its a perplexing problem but I believe this forum is part of the solution.  
 
 
 
 

djwayne

Anderton
The biggest surprise to me has been Platinum's extremely high level of stability. Granted I have a well-tuned computer, but still, I don't think it's just because of the hardware.

I have a cheap Dell second generation i3, with 8 gigs of ram and 1000 gig drive. Sonar Platinum is running very well on this cheapo computer. No complaints here !!

John

mudgel

Anderton

mudgel
Sound forge and Vegas spring to mind. Both use DX and VST, will select a windows driver model by default and just run immediately after installation. I know because I've tried it. They also allow you to use ASIO if you choose.

While I agree SONAR setup could be easier if users are willing to accept poor latency performance, I think 90% of the issue involves Windows. The only time I've had the experience Mudgel describes is on the post-OS X Mac. The low-latency Core Audio interface protocol is the only Mac audio protocol. Software and hardware knows what to look for and what to find. Core Audio even allows for easy aggregation.
 
Yes, Vegas just works but that's because it defaults to the inefficient Microsoft Sound Mapper. If SONAR defaulted to that, we'd be getting posts like "latency problems" and "strange distortion at low latencies" or even "can't adjust latency."
 
The unfortunate reality for Windows-based musicians is that the most "universal" low-latency protocol for Windows is not from Microsoft and not part of the OS. That means the user has no guarantee of being to access that protocol. There is also no guarantee an interface will work with WDM/KS, which is my experience is decent but not equal to ASIO. Who even knows what WASAPI and WAVErt are...DirectSound...MME...(and don't get me started on ASIO4ALL).
 
So then it's necessary to select ASIO and it's associated I/O, and that's not easy in any program. I won't name names but I've used no Windows program that didn't require multiple steps to get it to speak ASIO to an audio interface.
 
What would be cool is if upon opening SONAR for the first time, you had to choose one of the following and SONAR would act accordingly:
 

• I am using an external interface and its ASIO drivers are installed
• I am using a computer's internal sound card
• I have no clue. Start the wizard and yes, I realize this will now take up 15 minutes of my life

 
But back on topic...yes, thanks to the Bakers. They done good, and continue to get better.

As silly as it may look in type that's exactly the sort of thing I mean. As it is now if you're a new user Sonar does a profile of your audio systems for Windows drivers like WDM etc and that's where the problems start.
Sorry for taking this thread off topic. My comments came on the heels of both yourself and John lauding Sonar's stability and while that's true for many it's not true for the many that come to the forum and of those, many are new users, or at least appear new because of their forum status.
Anyway back on topic, there are many things to applaud about this release and while that's the case I think we should also continue to try and make Sonar better out of the box for inexperienced users. I'd like to say that Cakewalk have shown an extraordinary capacity to listen to the users and that's probably the best feature we have.
 
 

If I were coming to Sonar today and I knew nothing about it or computers or digital audio or MIDI I would be in deep, deep trouble. I would be very surprised if I could get any sound at all. But guess what I did come to digital audio knowing nothing. I was not born having any knowledge of MIDI and Sonar was not even an audio program. It was something the Navy used. I had to study and study hard to learn all of that and a lot more to boot. This is with some knowledge of music and that was not easy to learn either.
 
All of us have to start at some point and learn. When I started there was no Sonar forum for there was no Sonar.
 
Every scale I practiced every beet I did as a child trying to learn music was a struggle. No one can promise a quick and easy time getting oneself into a DAW based system. It will take time and effort. There is no shortcut or simple way to learn this. In the end when you have learned some things you begin to appreciate the DAWs that have inherent versatility. The ones that work with all sorts of stuff. The ones that will take everything you throw at it and just work.
 
Thats the way I view Sonar. Its not for the raw beginner. Its not meant to be easy by limiting what it can do. Its meant for those that need power and already know a few things. Years ago when a new user came on here we often advised them to read the manual. Now the manual is over 2000 pages and we still need to read it throughly. 
 
There is nothing easy about any of this. There never was. What CW has done is try hard to make it as easy as they can without making Sonar useless to those that do know how this all works.
 
Now we have a DAW that is so stable and powerful its down right breathtaking.