Fed up with Sonar X3 and the whole Sonar upgrade goose chase.

 Forgive me if this sounds like rant. It is and it isn’t.   First I would appreciate if anyone has any similar experience or ideas how to quash some of the following bugs I now encounter on a regular basis with the final version of X3.  

Importing audio/mp3 - When I switch screen set after importing some mp3s/audio into project message at top of screen says “importing audio” again for each audio item, and I can’t work whilst it is doing it (a progress bar appears for each and every item). Also happens when I close the project “importing audio” why?

Still frequent situations where i can’t grab the clip edit point on the bottom edge of clip (volume envelope prompts instead) 

Looping STILL eventually goes out of sync with soft synths! this has been happening since 8.5. seems inexcusable. 

I get plenty of crashes as a result of no particular task. I can' reproduce it.  Could be anything, it just falls over, could this be something to do with bit bridge and plug-ins? Not that crashes are a result of adjusting plug-ins but as an example I recently installed the Line 6 "Gearbox" VST and it is crashing Sonar too. 

  Now I am sure some of you will inform me, along with other adverts  that i can upgrade to Platinum and these bugs should be ironed out but seriously… This was why I bought X3 over X2 and X2 over X1. Can we not see a pattern emerging here?  
 
Best thing is with this new Platinum version they have realised what most people really seem to want: shiny new “things” each month. They’ve cracked it!  Forget making music. Welcome to the shiny new world of app-infused micro-rewards.   
 
I just want a DAW that performs the basic tasks well. Is that too much to ask? I would have been happy with X1 if it worked. Feels like I have been led on a wild goose chase to X3 that still has annoying issues that kills my work flow.   
 
However, don’t get me totally wrong. For the most part I really like Sonar, I like the ProChannel integration and general editing. I’m not going anywhere, I’ve made an investment and I intend to make it work. I’m just frustrated.
 
In hindsight I wish I just stuck with Reaper. I know all DAWs have issues but it would have been a darn sight cheaper lesson.   
 
 It just gets me down that as I’m really starting to find my feet creating the sounds I have always wanted to, my long time trusty companion is doing it’s best to stop me.   
 
I’ve even recently tried putting the PC on the internet so I could update win 7 completely as well as all other drivers/patches. Has made no difference. Just made my machine slower.   
 
Any thoughts guys?  

Hi mate, 
 
yes, the "importing audio message" it seems to be all projects. Although I use a template but will check later. I'm sure it's all. 
 
Even just starting a new "BLANK" (no template) project gives me crashes. 

X3e is a very stable version, but the looping issue still get threads in the new SONAR. With the 64-bit version, I avoid 32-bit plugins anymore.
 
As to the other things (stability related), in addition to the above, here is a quick list off the top of my head to check:

1. Run latency monitor to see what is going on for background processes, some may need to be disabled.
2. Do not allow the machine to ever sleep/hibernate/idle ports.
3. Disabling core parking if enabled.
4. Does the (Windows) Event Viewer specifically give you the cause of the crashes (there should be info in there)?
5. Disable Wi-Fi when working as a DAW.
6. If importing audio is slow, consider defragging the hard drive (if a magnetic HDD).
7. Virus scanning software (as with any background process) can slow things down.
8. What is the resource monitor seeing (both in X3 and Windows) when running normally?
9. As you said a new blank template also crashes, if specific plugs are used these would be something to look at.

I am not sure on the importing audio. I always "copy imported audio" using per-project folders, and once copied that is "it." Never seen anything after that point. Are you perhaps copying from a thumb drive? It has been noted that shifting screensets (that have the browser open in them) will read connected drives again.
 
Sorry for the haphazard reply, but hopefully can give you a few ideas at least. Stability issues like you describe with X3e is not normal.

rebel007
One thing that I see, is that you have 6GB of RAM in your setup. Can you tell us how this is configured? Do you have 3 x 2GB sticks, or 1 x 2GB and 1 x 4GB, or 1 x 6GB? Usually RAM will perform much more stably if it is configured in pairs of the same size and type. In most instances I would expect to see 4, 8, 16 or 32GB of RAM in any recently built computers.
It's just a thought, and something that stood out immediately in your specs. It may or may not have anything to do with these issues but it is something I would try as it's usually fairly quick and simple to add a stick of RAM.
There may be others here that can be a little more specific than I can be. Good luck and let us know if you have any success.

 Hi, thanks for you thoughts: the RAM is a Corsair 6GB pack sold on amazon with high reviews rating. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002LZ1FPG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage   I don't think that is the issue. 
 
 
 

mettelus
X3e is a very stable version, but the looping issue still get threads in the new SONAR. With the 64-bit version, I avoid 32-bit plugins anymore.
 
As to the other things (stability related), in addition to the above, here is a quick list off the top of my head to check:

1. Run latency monitor to see what is going on for background processes, some may need to be disabled. WILL CHECK
2. Do not allow the machine to ever sleep/hibernate/idle ports. WILL CHECK
3. Disabling core parking if enabled. Not sure that is relevant noways? i'm sure I checked this. WILL CHECK
   
4. Does the (Windows) Event Viewer specifically give you the cause of the crashes (there should be info in there)? WILL CHECK
5. Disable Wi-Fi when working as a DAW.  network is hard-wired
6. If importing audio is slow, consider defragging the hard drive (if a magnetic HDD). Win 7 auto- Defrags I think. 
7. Virus scanning software (as with any background process) can slow things down. Was crashing without any virus software on machine (used to be offline) Now using Microsoft Security Essentials. 
8. What is the resource monitor seeing (both in X3 and Windows) when running normally? WILL CHECK
9. As you said a new blank template also crashes, if specific plugs are used these would be something to look at. I meant totally BLANK project not template. 

I am not sure on the importing audio. I always "copy imported audio" using per-project folders, and once copied that is "it." Never seen anything after that point. Are you perhaps copying from a thumb drive? It has been noted that shifting screensets (that have the browser open in them) will read connected drives again.
 
I import audio/mp3 files by dragging files from the browser window (in Sonar) directly into the project. anyone that does that should see the "importing audio" window appear very briefly. this is what I get constantly flashing up for each file. Even when switching screen sets.
 
Sorry for the haphazard reply, but hopefully can give you a few ideas at least. Stability issues like you describe with X3e is not normal.

Sacalait
Sorry to hear you're having some issues.  I'm using X3e and while I occasionally experience something I'm encountering no showstoppers.  But as some have said I'm not using all the functionality in Sonar.  I treat it more like a multi-track tape recorder than anything.  Are you creating a groove clip when you're looping?  I do it all the time and I can't say anything goes out of sync.  This works best when doing it in 4 or 8 bar increments.  

 For me it's lots of showstoppers :( 
 
I also use v basic functionality but use the Pro Channel. 
 
The looping issue involves looping a section of the timeline with soft-synths playing back. it slowly slips out of sync after looping for a while. No idea why. this issue has been around for ever though. Can't believe it hasn't been quashed by now

Good advice as usual from Mettelus. FWIW I'm pretty sure the looping is now fixed.
 
Really I think there are two issues: Stability and cost of maintenance/updating.
 
Windows is highly cost-effective but only if tweaked properly, and the causes of issues are not always obvious. Even if you have a clean computer, install Windows 7, then install SONAR and use only 64-bit plug-ins Windows can still be problematic due to interactions. It took me years before I realized how much the "HD Audio" codec installed by my graphics was impacting performance and limiting the ability to get low latency. It is extremely frustrating to find out something like having a floppy disk port enabled on your motherboard by default but no floppy drive present can cause problems. It's also frustrating that the more a program depends on Windows for performance, the more likely there will be problems. Often cross-platform programs can be more stable, but at the expense of some level of performance hit.
 
As to maintenance and upgrading, having been raised in the days of tape I have a somewhat different perspective. A four-track recorder with nothing else cost me $2500 adjusted for inflation, and I had to keep dishing out at least $50 per month for tape. The option was renting time at some studio that had probably $100K-$250K worth of gear. Today's DAWs, including SONAR, do pretty much everything those studios could do from a recording standpoint (e.g., excepting acoustics, room treatment, etc.) and for me, spending $150-$200 a year to maintain SONAR in peak condition isn't that much more than replacing my strings every few weeks. Also remember that while many updates are about bugs within SONAR, many are also about issues caused by interactions with other software or Windows itself.
 
None of this is to minimize the frustration that happens when your tools aren't working right, I've "been there and done that" and it sucks. However, it's what I tell myself when I need to remember that all things considered, running a computer-based DAW is a big improvement over what I was dealing with 25 years ago. I'm very grateful my system runs so smoothly and I can count on SONAR to get the job done, especially since the upgrade to Platinum. But, I attribute a lot of that to the hardware platform.

I went through this before, and it drove me crazy. I assume that you listed the ram at amazon because you updated it yourself. Double-check the ram CAS latency, and make sure that it matches what it says in the BIOS. Don't rely on auto-detect. Put the actual figures in the BIOS. I've had several friends go through the same thing, and it was usually a CAS latency ram issue.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

Don't know about smart, more like having gone through the "what the ****** is wrong with this PC build now" enough times.

My big wake-up with RAM issues came with a PC I put together when Vista came out. The RAM was on the motherboard approved list and it's makers said it should run at <whatever the speed was>. BIOS picked it up "correctly" but as soon as Windows loaded it was freeze or blue-screen time. So I ran memcheck off a boot disk for 48 hours straight. No problems found. Booted into Vista and.......crash. Throttled back the RAM and things worked very well and still are, only that PC's a Linux server now.

Conclusion? Windows isn't only an operating system, it's also one of the most brutal RAM testing applications on the market. Any hardware problem and Windows will find it. To be fair to Microsoft and Windows application coders, it doesn't help that PCs are so variable in their hardware it's almost a miracle they work at all.

tlw
My big wake-up with RAM issues came with a PC I put together when Vista came out. The RAM was on the motherboard approved list and it's makers said it should run at <whatever the speed was>. BIOS picked it up "correctly" but as soon as Windows loaded it was freeze or blue-screen time. So I ran memcheck off a boot disk for 48 hours straight. No problems found. Booted into Vista and.......crash. Throttled back the RAM and things worked very well and still are, only that PC's a Linux server now.

Conclusion? Windows isn't only an operating system, it's also one of the most brutal RAM testing applications on the market. Any hardware problem and Windows will find it. 

My conclusion would be it isn't a memory issue at all. If it's working in Linux and passing memcheck AND it's happening straight after windows boots it's more likely display drivers, or the firmware on the graphics card (or GPU onboard the motherboard). I just had to go through a similar issue which was resolved by updating my graphics card BIOS, it was not fun. Or it could be some other piece of hardware that needs drivers or firmware updating, or even chipset drivers.

Thanks for all the constructive help guys! really appreciate it. 
 
OK, so where I'm at now:
 
GFX drivers were already up to date. 
 
Windows 7 x64 up to date
 
The RAM issue: 3x 2GB sticks. In hindsight maybe it was the wrong choice. I think at the time I couldn't afford 8GB so got 6GB thinking it fine. I checked my motherboard and i'm sure it was compatible at the time. Maybe I should have gone for 8? Seems to be working though? ahhh. 
 
the vs-100, I thought was running the latest driver. 2.0.0. However turns out that when I tried the latest the message "driver already installed" was throwing me off. thought it was saying I had latest. Now updated to 2.0.1
 
Updated the chip set drivers. 
 
Discovered there was an additional "HD audio device" in device manager (system devices) and disabled (as per Andertons advice)
 
Haven't updated the BIOS yet. Wanted to see how things are after these changes first. 
 
 
the "importing audio" window bug seems to have gone - Great
 
looping seems OK too (more testing required though)
 
Most importantly - I've been trying to crash Sonar X3 but as yet it has failed to crash :)   BUT you guys know how it is, tomorrow it might start hating me again! ;)
 
 UPDATE to follow..... 
 
 
 
 

SilverfoxUK
Thanks for all the constructive help guys! really appreciate it. 
 
OK, so where I'm at now:
 
GFX drivers were already up to date. 
 
Windows 7 x64 up to date
 
The RAM issue: 3x 2GB sticks. In hindsight maybe it was the wrong choice. I think at the time I couldn't afford 8GB so got 6GB thinking it fine. I checked my motherboard and i'm sure it was compatible at the time. Maybe I should have gone for 8? Seems to be working though? ahhh. 
 
the vs-100, I thought was running the latest driver. 2.0.0. However turns out that when I tried the latest the message "driver already installed" was throwing me off. thought it was saying I had latest. Now updated to 2.0.1
 
Updated the chip set drivers. 
 
Discovered there was an additional "HD audio device" in device manager (system devices) and disabled (as per Andertons advice)
 
Haven't updated the BIOS yet. Wanted to see how things are after these changes first. 
 
 
the "importing audio" window bug seems to have gone - Great
 
looping seems OK too (more testing required though)
 
Most importantly - I've been trying to crash Sonar X3 but as yet it has failed to crash :)   BUT you guys know how it is, tomorrow it might start hating me again! ;)
 
 UPDATE to follow..... 
 
 
 
 

 If you have 3 sticks of RAM it isn't in Dual Channel mode.  I have 3 machines with 6GB of RAM buy the are DDR2 with 2GB,1GB,2BG,1GB sticks.  They are AMD machines and they have something different than Dual Channel Mode.  My Intel system has 8GB and it runs in Dual Channel. I'm not sure that really makes a difference in this problem.
 
 BIOS updates are often unnecessary unless you are upgrading a CPU that requires an updated BIOS.
 
 I have other DAWs installed and if the same problem exists it's hardware.  BTW I never have my DAWs import and convert different file formats unless it's AIFF.   Sometimes it can be the MP3s that can cause problems.