jcwalsh1961
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MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
I would appreciate any help or guidance. I have never encountered this dilemma before. I cannot figure out
how to play my XF8 and send midi notes to be recorded by Sonar. Or play a file from Sonar to control my XF8.I am using a USB cable to a laptop cable.
When I playback midi files from Sonar it does not control my keyboard. Rather I hear the Sonar instruments routed through my Keyboard to my speakers. Do I need some type of midi adapter cable? I have checked and rechecked all of my midi settings and everything appears to be in order. I also have full DAW control from the keyboard. Is it a cable? I have tried General Midi mappings, Ch1 to Ch 1 mappings etc. And the Motif does show up in the I/O Midi device list. I couldn't find a single tutorial on how to create a Midi project.....
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Anderton
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 00:37:20
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What kind of audio interface are you using, and how is it connected?
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RobertB
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 02:05:13
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jcwalsh1961
When I playback midi files from Sonar it does not control my keyboard. Rather I hear the Sonar instruments routed through my Keyboard to my speakers. Do I need some type of midi adapter cable?
If you hear the Sonar Instruments, the MIDI data is being sent to the softsynth(s), not the Motif. This aspect of your problem is simple pilot error. You are not directing the MIDI track output to the device (real or virtual) that you actually want to use. Double check your routing. Also, you say the Motif shows up in the MIDI I/O list. Have you selected it in both fields? Its mere presence is not enough. That just tells you Sonar knows it's there. You must tell Sonar to use it.
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 07:16:52
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 07:19:15
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Anderton I am not using an audio interface. Just using a USB A to USB B cable. The Keyboard USB host output is connected to the laptop USB input. Regards, JW
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Sanderxpander
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 10:30:34
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In your screenshot it looks like you have about six instances of the Motif and you're using the second one. Any idea why?
Also, Windows has a midi device limit which is dumb and annoying and a great point in favor of OSX. If you have installed more than ten midi devices (ever, since the history of your computer, and the same device on a different USB port counts twice!) any newer midi devices will not function. I can't say often enough how ****ed this is, especially in a pro environment, but we have deal with it. Korg makes a utility that lets you remove unused and corrupted midi devices. It comes with any Korg midi driver you can download from their site. If you start the removal utility you can untick the box that says "Korg drivers only" and it will let you clean out any drivers you don't use anymore. Worth a try if it seems you've made all the correct settings and nothing is happening.
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brundlefly
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 10:44:02
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A few things: 1. You need to have the audio outputs of the Motif connected to your soundcard's audio input. The USB cables only carry MIDI. 2. Then you need to have an audio track in the project with Input set to the soundcard input that's connected to the Motif and Output set to the soundcard's output that's connected to your speakers/monitors. Then you need to enable Input Echo on the track so that the incoming audio is passed through SONAR to your soundcard and on to the speakers. 3. In order to hear the Motif while playing live and recording, you will need to have Input Echo enabled on the MIDI track as well (SONAR does this by default based on the Always Echo current MIDI Track setting in Preferences when the MIDI track has focus), and turn off Local Control on the Motif so that the keyboard only responds to MIDI played or echoed back to it from SONAR. 4. I think what you're hearing on playback of existing MIDI is the output of your soundcard's GS Wavetable synth going directly to the speakers. The keyboard is not involved in that routing. You should probably uncheck the wavetable synth as an output as it will have high latency so it won't play in sync with other instruments, and its sounds will be inferior to both your Motif, and most of SONAR's bundled soft synths. EDIT: Also, following up on jcwalsh's comments, since the Motif apparently offers multiple virtual MIDI In/Out ports via the one USB connection, you'll need to make sure that the Motif's keyboard is sending on MIDI Out 2 and that its onboard synth is receiving on the MIDI In port 2 that you currently have enabled. My guess would be that it defaults to using the port 1 in both cases, so you might just want to change your selections in MIDI Devices.
post edited by brundlefly - 2015/04/04 11:10:43
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 12:45:13
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In regards to the question "In your screenshot it looks like you have about six instances of the Motif and you're using the second one. Any idea why? " This is the setting that the Yamaha Manual tells you to use when using Sonar as your DAW. Not sure what the logic behind that is.
Regarding some of the points made by Brundlefly, I am not using a sound card. I use powered speakers connected to the Yamaha keyboard. So some how the audio is passing through the USB to the Yamaha. But I would agree all I am hearing is the synth sounds. I can switch between Microsoft GS Wavetable and Cakewalk TTS, But at no time do I hear the output of the Yamaha triggered by Sonar midii output. I can tell because when I change the Yamaha voice the sound of the voice coming from the speaker doesn't change. I also only had a roland connected recently so maybe the multiple midi issue is happening.
I will check that and my echo settings. And the local control tip is a good one. That has got me in the past. Thank you all for the invaluable information and tips. Must be something with Windows as I have the same problem with Sibelius. I'll let you know how I make out. Cheers.
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brundlefly
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 13:17:37
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So you're monitoring the Motif through powered monitors, and possibly hearing your wavetable synth through another set of speakers connected to your sound card? Or is there an external mixer in there somewhere that alos conects your soundcard to those powered monitors?
Now I'm thinking it's more probable that you're hearing the Motif, but because you don't have the MIDI routing figured out inside the Motif, the patch that you're changing is not the one that the Motif is playing. In any case, it's highly unlikely that audio is passing from SONAR through the Motif.
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 13:36:34
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No, There is no connection between the laptop and any speaker system or mixer at all. The only cable that is connected to the laptop is the usb cable from the Yamaha. In fact the windows sounds such as application pings and sound notifications also come through the powered speakers. So there is definitely something weird going on. I'll post a video later today so I can demonstrate what is going on . Thanks again so much for helping out.
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brundlefly
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 14:17:58
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Sounds like you're going to have to spend some quality time with the Motif's user manual. But ultimately you want to have your monitoring system and the Motif's audio output connected to your sound card (or routed to an audio track from a USB audio input if that's how it works), and be routing all audio through SONAR. Although the XF8 apparently has an audio sampling capability, I'm not seeing that has a built-in USB audio interface which would need to be true based on what you're describing. 
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c5_convertible
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 14:31:50
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☼ Best Answerby jcwalsh1961 2015/04/04 17:55:18
The fact that you hear sonar through your yamaha is normal. The MOXF (it is NOT a motif XF, that is a different machine) has a USB Audio card incorporated in the machine. Which means that the MOXF can act as a sound card. When you hear the software synth, it must be instantiated. You say in one of your posts, "I can select the Microsoft GS Wavetable or the Cakewalk TTS". These are software synths, which you should NOT use to use the on-board sounds of the MOXF. One of the things I read in the MOXF manual (I don't own an MOXF, but a MOTIF XF), is that you need to enable the USB MIDI (Press Utility - F6 MIDI - SF4 OTHER - set parameter MIDI IN/OUT to USB) Also, In the dutch quick guide manual (which I believe would be more or less the same in English) on P 54, it explains some other settings that need to be done on the MOXF. I also think that MOXF Port 2 is actually the port that is used when using the MOXF as a remote control (Mackie control) for Sonar. According to the manual Port 1 is the one that is used for MIDI playback. (I believe a page or 2 later) I would try enabling that... On the MOTIF XF, there are also a couple of ports, and the same applies there. One thing that I found that works quite well is the VST Editor for the Motif. THere is one for the MOXF as well, and the advantage is that when you select a patch, it keeps it with your sonar project. The downside is that the VST did not work well in Sonar X3, as the VST3 specs were - to put it mildly - not documented by Steinberg. It only worked well in Cubase... But don't say that to Yamaha, as they responded quite harsh when I suggested that at one time. I haven't tried the VST Editor in Platinum yet though. FYI... The reason I think you have an MOXF and not a Motif XF, is because in your screenshot, it says MOXF. My USB drivers says Motif XF.
post edited by c5_convertible - 2015/04/04 14:50:23
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Sanderxpander
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 16:32:26
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I don't have a Motif but I'm pretty sure it doesn't do audio over USB at all, you need the Firewire board for that. Google seems to agree. Can you show us a screenshot of your audio devices?
Is it possible that you're hearing the Motif GM set?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 16:35:38
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Hang on, never mind my post, c5 nailed it I think. A MOXF is different from a Motif indeed. It does do stereo audio over USB. But I think c5 found the relevant bit in the manual!
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 17:02:14
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Ye C5 is is right on target. It is an MOXF8 I am not sure how Motif got in the heading. My bad. I think spell check auto corrected and I didn't catch it. I also had recently sold a Motif XF8. Very sorry for the confusion all. Getting back to C5's response. I think the Mackie control on on the MOXf8 port 2 is a major clue since that is in the Yamaha manual section under Sonar DAW control. Of course there are 2 manuals for the MOXF8 I haven't checked the second manual. I didn't see anything on port 1 but will recheck. Thank you again all. I think this will be resolved very soon.
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 17:34:29
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c5_convertible you solved it. I don't have everything fully working yet but I feel I am going in the right direction thanks to your reply. I de-selected MOXFX8-2 in the Midi device table and selected MOXF8-1 and I now have midi data triggering the Yamaha performance voices. Halla-freaking-lujah. Wow this has been quite a long road to getting to this point. I have been working with midi for twenty plus years and maybe my age or patience has gotten the better of me this time. I thank everybody for helping me solve this problem which has consumed me for two days. I still have a little energy to be creative after all. Incidentally my quick start manual is different. I had to go to the reference manual page 148 where the midi utility section is. Thanks again everyone this is an awesome forum. Solved.
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AntonyBanderos
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha Motif XF8
2015/04/04 17:45:09
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☄ Helpfulby jcwalsh1961 2015/04/04 17:54:55
Hello! I looked at your screenshot. You should choose chekbox "MIDI port 1 Yamaha MOXF6/MOXF8 -1"
Port 1 - for music performance data (Note-ons, Controllers, Tempo)
Port 2 - Control Surface commands (Remote Control)
Port 3 - for one external device connected to the 5-pin jacks of the MOXF.
Port 4 - Reserved for the “Yamaha MOXF6/MOXF8 Editor Standalone/VST”
Port 5 - Reserved for the “Yamaha REMOTE EDITOR” for creating custom interfaces for VSTi on your computer.
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha MOXF8
2015/04/04 17:51:05
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Thanks Anthony that is a big help. I also de-selected the Yamaha audio playback drivers in the Sonar audio preference section. Still playing with the settings. Thank you again.
post edited by jcwalsh1961 - 2015/04/04 17:58:14
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c5_convertible
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha MOXF8
2015/04/05 04:47:56
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☄ Helpfulby jcwalsh1961 2015/04/05 07:04:59
Glad i could help! However, There's no need to disable the audio playback, if your speakers are connected to the MOXF. You can use it as a soundcard that way. And, you can mix both the midi from the audio engine of the MOXF and the audio you recorded in sonar (together with soft synths). This wy, you can play your full performance through the same speakers without needing a seperate mixing board.
@sanderxpander: yes, you are right, the motif indeed doesn't send audio through usb. You need the firewire card for it. Works well, but it isn't perfect. It would be nice if windows could do aggregate devices, because now i have to switch between my motif and my saffire. Cubase asks if you want to switch if it detects the motif, but sonar needs manual help.
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha MOXF8
2015/04/05 07:01:51
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C5 thank you. I was able to do exactly what you described and now I have a working rig. It actually works really well now that you have provided me with the proper configuration. And the sound coming from the keyboard direct to the speakers is awesome. I think understanding the utility menus on the Yamaha is what threw me. I haven't worked with a keyboard that could act as the sound card before. I didn't know it had this capability until posting on this forum.
You have been extremely helpful thanks again. Have a great day.
Yamaha MOXF8-M Audio DSM3 Powered Speaker-Bannan Monkey Powered Subwoofer-Microsoft Surface 3
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AntonyBanderos
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha MOXF8
2015/04/05 07:31:17
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☄ Helpfulby jcwalsh1961 2015/04/05 07:40:58
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jcwalsh1961
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Re: MIDI problems and Yamaha MOXF8
2015/04/05 07:38:23
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Wow, awesome Anthony. Thanks for the link. Really appreciate this. VST editing is new territory for me,
something I have not given a go of.
JW
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