Bus question...

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tindog13
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2015/04/08 02:34:08 (permalink)

Bus question...

I've used buses before in Sonar, mostly as effects sends, but not as extensively as I'm trying to now, but my problem is with a basic function I'm either not understanding or missing yet another something that has to be on, or checked... I have a piece with multiple vocals, I have mixed them to a level relationship that I like so I'm sending them to a bus I've labelled "Vocals" so I can maintain that relationship. The "Vocal" bus is then being routed to the "Master". But, when I have the "Vocal" bus volume down to infinity negative, and the "Master" bus is soloed, I still hear the vocal tracks through the master, so when I bring up the level on the "Vocal" bus I'm just adding it to what's going through the master. If I'm busing the tracks to the "Vocal" and busing the "Vocal" to the "Master", should the "Vocal" slider not control the level I hear via the Master bus? How are the individual tracks still going straight to the Master bus if I have them routed to a specific bus?
 
Also, I have an odd situation I can't figure out... one drum sound, a floor tom, is sounding through my "Bass" bus, though it is clearly being routed to the "Drum" bus... but only that one drum sound. No matter what bus I switch it to, it insists on going through the "Bass" bus... any thoughts?
post edited by tindog13 - 2015/04/08 02:56:20

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    mudgel
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 03:13:31 (permalink)
    A bus can be set Pre or Post fader. Check that setting first

    If set to pre fader then no matter what channel change you make the sound will still come through your bus..

    If it's set Post fader then when you reduce the level using the channel fader you will also reduce the level going to the bus. It will also increase the sound heard on your main bus because you add the channel sound and the bus sound. Usually busses are set pre fader.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    jih64
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 03:28:00 (permalink)
    . . . carry on
    post edited by jih64 - 2015/04/08 03:56:35
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    tindog13
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 04:02:58 (permalink)
    I'm just not getting it. If I'm routing all the vocals to the vocal bus, and I have that bus to infinity negative, or even muted... but I have the master bus soloed, why am I hearing the vocals through the master, no matter how I have the send set on the track, pre or post, on or off?

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    mudgel
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 04:30:19 (permalink)
    It leaves me wondering where you're monitoring. Could it be that you are monitoring through your audio device and not Sonar at all.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    AT
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 10:01:46 (permalink)
    Your first problem sounds like a send or something is also routed.  No choice but to go through each track or channel and double check the routing and the sends.
     
    The 2nd problem may be a SONAR bug.  Last night I added a send for a vocal effect  on a full project and I just happened to notice it was routed to my hardware output, not Master.  And I couldn't change it.  There was the hardware outputs available and creating a new buss, but not the list of SONAR outputs.  I switched to the metronome bus and used that and voilà, that send worked as expected.  I didn't check it again since I was actually working, not beta-testing.  But try deleting and adding another buss, or maybe just adding another buss and switching to that one.  We might have found a bug Cake should know about.  But I didn't document what was going on.
     
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    trmusic
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 10:46:45 (permalink)
    If you didn't already check this, ensure you don't have vocal sends to effects (reverb or preview busses, for example) that would be ultimately routed to master.  Also, check for pre- post- fader setting to ensure you have control of the level with your fader.
     
    tr
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    tindog13
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 11:42:17 (permalink)
    Thanks guys, this is what I was afraid, just something I didn't understand, and it wasn't directly answered but the conversation forced me to look at everything... what I didn't know before is that I have to route the "output" of a track, audio track in this case, to the bus, not just the bus send. I think that's what Mudgel is saying, kudo. Lesson learned.

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    ULTRABRA
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 12:10:28 (permalink)
    "...what I didn't know before is that I have to route the "output" of a track, audio track in this case, to the bus, not just the bus send".   Just?    You should route the vocal tracks (audio) to the "Vocals Bus" - that is, as you say, make the Output of the Vocals tracks the "Vocals Bus" (instead of the Master).  If I understand your setup correctly, you should not have any "sends" going on aswell ...

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    Truckermusic
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/08 12:21:53 (permalink)
    Since the first issue is sussed out I will attempt to answer your second question..
     
    On your drum instrument.....
    YOur Floor Tom is sounding thru your Bass buss?
    Again, Check your sends
    most likely you have your routing a bit a skew.....
     
    You may want to redo or make a new bass buss and use that to see if the floor tom comes thru...try with a different name on hte bass buss....
     
    Just my 2 cents

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    joel77
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    Re: Bus question... 2015/04/09 11:02:42 (permalink)
    Richard,
     
    Sounds like you figured it out, but here's what I do (this comes from years of working on an analog mixer. Not to say it's the only way, but it's what works for me):
     
    If you want to group tracks, ie to have a single fader control, send the track output to a bus and label it accordingly (vocal tracks go to the vocal buss). 
     
    If you're feeding a track to a buss that contains FX like reverb, use that track's aux send so you can vary the amount of signal sent to the FX.  
     
    Depending on the tracks in any given song, I've used as many as 30 busses. Anytime I have multiples of the same source (lead vocals, snare drum, etc), I send them to a buss. This allows the use of a single fader, plus I can apply EQ, compression, etc there as opposed to applying the same on multiple tracks. I'll also feed one buss to another buss. If I have a snare drum buss, a tom buss and a room mic buss, I'll seed these to a drum buss, which is then fed to an instrument buss. If I have (which I normally do) multiple FX busses, they all get fed to a master FX buss, which enables me to mute (for example) all FX with one button, if I need to do so during a mix.
     
    Hope that's more helpful than confusing.

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