How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation?

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DaveG74
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2015/04/09 19:00:59 (permalink)

How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation?

I would like to be able to fade out MIDI notation in the Piano Roll View...is there an "automatic" way to do this?
 
I could draw in a volume controller, but the problem is: For example, let's say the base volume of the note is 120. I draw a single line controller dropping from 120 to 0 over x seconds. But then later, when I'm finalizing my mix, what if I need to change the base volume of that instrument track? That means I have to alter the highest events in the controller to match. I know this isn't such a difficult task -- or I can convert said note(s) to audio -- but is there a more automatic way to create a volume fade for MIDI notation in this manner?
 
Please assist. Thanks in advance! :)
post edited by Grundberg - 2015/04/09 20:16:11
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    DRanck
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/09 19:45:09 (permalink)
    If the VSTi you are using supports it, you can use CC11 Expression instead of volume. CC11 goes from 0 to 127 BUT within the max volume you have set. So if your volume (CC7) is 100, CC11 with a value of 127 will result in a volume of 127, CC11 = 63 would be a volume of 50. I hope this is making sense.
     
    This allows you to control the relative volume of a track independent of the overall volume. CC7 volume can then be used in mixing and keep the CC11 changes in place.

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    DaveG74
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/13 17:17:44 (permalink)
    So, if I'm understanding correctly, I can use the Expression controller (CC11) independently from the Master volume of the track and it will produce the desired result? That would be a lifesaver if I didn't have to adjust the master volume to match the highest point in the fade.
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    konradh
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/13 17:54:41 (permalink)
    I would do this:
     
    • At the start of the track, set both Controller 7 and Controller 11 to 90 (or some other value that is not at the bottom or the top).
    • Highlight the region for the fade.
    • Go to Insert | Insert Series of Controllers. Use the dialog box to fade controller 7 them from 90 to 0.  (Of course, you may not want to go all the way down to zero.)
    • Now if you want things louder or software, you can just change that one instance of Controller 11 to a higher or lower value.
    • **OR** instead of using Controller 11 at all, you can highlight that range of controller 7 events and use Find/Change to change Controller 7 from 0 to 90 to some other range (like 0 to 70 for quieter or 0 to 127 for louder).
     
    Frankly, I don't use Controller 11, and I just use Find/Chnage to change my Controller 7 value—but using Controller 11 as an overall volume makes sense.  I just got in the habit of doing things the other way.
     
    Now I don't change MIDI volumes in most cases: I automate the audio track or bus.
     
    NOTE: I find that Sonar inserts too many controller and pitch wheel messages.  Controllers are not usually a problem, but the huge number of pitch wheel messages Sonar inserts can really slow down your computer.  There are CAL programs to thin out Controller or Pitch Wheel messages.  When I use those, I go to the event list and unselect the starting and ending values so CAL doesn't remove them.

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    DRanck
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/13 19:53:03 (permalink)
    The advantage to using CC11 to control the expressive volume of an instrument is that it leaves CC7 (volume) to be used in the console to blend the various tracks. I rarely use volume for volume changes.
     
    Instead of entering the CC11 and other control messages in the PRV, you can draw automation envelopes in track view. The advantage there is (I think) it is easier to edit and get just the right shape than it is in the PRV. Although in the latest Sonar, the PRV is much better for editing controllers.
     
    Just my 2 cents.

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    konradh
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/13 20:00:30 (permalink)
    DRanck, For my education, what is the difference in using CC11 v CC7 for volume changes?
     
    The reason I use CC7 more frequently is that it is pretty universally recognized by virtual instruments as well as hardware synths (e.g., Vienna, RealGuitar, Scarbee Bass).
     
    From the controller names, it does seem like the original intent was to use CC7 as an overall instrument volume and CC11 for crescendo/decrescendo (which is what I think you are saying), but it just doesn't seem like it ended up that way since pedals and VIs all seem to go with CC7.
     
    I really don't have any preference for one over the other, but thought I'd get your ideas.
     
    For the original poster, though, you can use one for overall volume and one for fades; or you can use Find/Change to edit your fades later, so you have a wealth of options.
     

    Konrad
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    DaveG74
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/17 19:02:30 (permalink)
    Thank you for all the responses regarding this operation.
    As suggested, I created a quick sample in which to test CC controller 11.I left the instrument volume to default 100. I placed a CC 11 before the note and carried it from 127 to 0. It would seem as though it executed as expected. No matter what I changed my base volume to, CC 11's peak volume stayed consistent with the volume of the notes before it.
     
    For the sake of perfection (and my OCD), I just to want to confirm that this is the way CC 11 works...as an independent volume control from the actual instrument volume level.
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: How to create automatic volume fade for MIDI notation? 2015/04/17 20:19:45 (permalink)
    I use the little red envelope tool at the end of the track now for fades. 

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