ACT / CC data - Midi Learn

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markyzno
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2015/04/11 11:56:34 (permalink)

ACT / CC data - Midi Learn

I'd love to see an update on this very confusing issue in a future command center release.
 
Basically I am the proud owner of a newly acquired Maschine Studio (its awesome)
 
I want to set up Maschine as a controller in Sonar, so far so good with remote control and Midi Learn with the faders in console, mute buttons, all this kinda stuff....
 
But, ACT is far far far too confusing, midi learn won't pick up the transport features or any of the buttons as opposed to pads - basically anything that is CC data rather than a midi key (C1 c2 etc etc)
 
Mackie template in ACT or just ACT controller nor remote control pick up the buttons yet there is clearly a MIDI signal going into Sonar (yes I have all that setup correctly)
 
It would be a nice feature to have an ACT Wizard approach to setting up controllers, OR have a more up to date template list to choose from. The templates in ACT are pretty much out dated.
 
Anyone had any joy with Maschine Studio and Sonar? 

Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

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    azslow3
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 12:16:53 (permalink)
    I do not have Maschine, so you get no ready to use solution from me.
     
    But you can make the first perfect preset for Maschine with SONAR yourself!
    See the link in my signature for details.
     

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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    #2
    markyzno
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 12:46:56 (permalink)
    thats the aim I guess....

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

    Sound Design on IMDB --
     
    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 13:35:12 (permalink)
    I believe this was raised in the past by several (maybe 2?) folks - I have to do a couple of things real quick, but will do some searching to see what I can find on this.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #4
    markyzno
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 14:00:32 (permalink)
    Cheers Bob!

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

    Sound Design on IMDB --
     
    #5
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 15:31:33 (permalink)
    Thanks for your patience - I am literally working on 3 different computers at the moment, and have had zero sleep since a day and a half ago - Thursday night.
     
    I will do some digging for you, I promise.  :)
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #6
    markyzno
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 15:34:31 (permalink)
    I would suggest taking more crack. 
     
    Bob, seriously any input would be great, take your time.
     
    I'll work on some kind of part ACT and part Remote control template for Maschine. 
    I downloaded a good one for Traktor so maybe I can look at the data in that and somehow cross pollinate it.

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

    Sound Design on IMDB --
     
    #7
    mettelus
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 16:02:19 (permalink)
    Another option would be to email NI (or even post to their forums) to see if anyone there had made a surface for SONAR. It would seem that someone has already done that and might possibly share it. Would seem a shame to re-invent the wheel if already done.

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    #8
    markyzno
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 16:06:07 (permalink)
    Been there and done that  
     
    No Joy, lots of **** for Ableton Hip Hop folk but none for us Sonar peeps.
     
    I have bought a few Maschine templates that I can analyse in Controller editor....
     
    For me the frustration is within the ACT/Remote/midi Learn functionality within Sonar. It's not great.

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

    Sound Design on IMDB --
     
    #9
    azslow3
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 17:18:47 (permalink)
    markyzno
    For me the frustration is within the ACT/Remote/midi Learn functionality within Sonar. It's not great.

    The second (and the last) attempt. I am not spammer.. I just try to help.
     
    ACT is mapping between virtual "control X" and "parameter Y" in plug-in, changed when you focus another plug-in to "parameter Z". What is Y and Z are configurable (ACT learn). Nothing more.
     
    Remote/MIDI Learn is basic MIDI control, almost historical.
     
    Sonar has a concept of Control Surface plug-ins. They are responsible for communication with hardware and performing tasks in Sonar (ACT is just a small part of possible tasks). CW has limited set of such plug-ins. Some hardware producers have product specific plug-ins (Nektar, Novation, Mackie and Roland), just for several devices and partially outdated.
     
    CW has 2 generic plug-ins, suitable to use with many devices. But only simple devices are covered. And only small subset of possible operations is allowed to be assigned.
     
    The idea was that hardware producers will write own plug-ins for serious devices, the API and the source code is public since long time. It is not about "template" or configuration, it is about real binary program, specially developed for particular device to support CW products. Unfortunately, hardware producers do not see an interest in such development.
     
    I have developed universal plug-in, which can be configured by everyone, without programming skills. It is able to work with almost any device communicating throw MIDI. Unlike generic CW plug-ins it support bidirectional communication. It can trigger close to all supported operations in Sonar.

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    #10
    markyzno
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 17:28:51 (permalink)
    The above is much appreciated and naturally understood.
     
    However, I am no Noob to this.
     
    I agree that it is within the respective manufacturers to write said templates for inclusion into major DAWS but I feel here that Sonar is very old school in that if you look at the presets included for ACT they are most dated if not beyond that.
     
    Presets for Emu Xboard controllers for example????
     
    Fault can be had at both sides here with Sonar and NI (or whoever) but ultimately it is us the User base that truly suffers.
     
    Surely as I  suggested in my original post, if Sonar had a better system than the current process of ACT and GUI that it would make us, the customer creatives a far off better place to interact our studio kit, I am not talking about cutom built non linear gear here, I am talking about a MAJOR DAW and a MAJOR Controller.
     
     

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

    Sound Design on IMDB --
     
    #11
    azslow3
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 18:34:09 (permalink)
    markyzno
    Surely as I  suggested in my original post, if Sonar had a better system than the current process of ACT and GUI that it would make us, the customer creatives a far off better place to interact our studio kit, I am not talking about cutom built non linear gear here, I am talking about a MAJOR DAW and a MAJOR Controller.

    Sonar has advanced system for control surfaces! But it is not ACT and it has no GUI. It is API.
     
    The problem is that Sonar is not a Major DAW for NI and Machine is not a Major controller for CW. Marketing rules.
     
    A year ago I could agree with everyone that there is no way to use the potential of Surface XYZ with Sonar. So I have exposed powerful Sonar CS API as something configurable and with GUI. In a hope that such addition triggers some user activity and creativity. Such activity in turn could attract some attention from CW side, there are quite some bugs there and some new features could be handy. But nothing has happened so far. Which just prove that CW idea to move into touch direction and freeze hardware controllers support was right.
     
    You can turn the wheel. Create some interesting interaction between Machine and Sonar (inside AZC, my claim is that IS possible) and so attract more users to use Machine with Sonar. That can make CW users potential customers for NI and Machine users potential customers for CW. And both companies can be convinced to spend some time for development in that direction.

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
    #12
    markyzno
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 18:36:47 (permalink)
    cool, show me how to get the transport to work with in Sonar with the S61 or Maschine then?
     
    I want my NI Kit to work with my HOME (Sonar) in terms of jog wheel, transport etc...

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

    Sound Design on IMDB --
     
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    BretB
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/11 19:16:50 (permalink)
    Try this guys plugin.  Worked awesome for my console.  Now I can control everything I need in Sonar from my ZED R16.
     www.azslow.com - my Universal MIDI Control Surface plug-in

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    azslow3
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    Re: ACT / CC data - Midi Learn 2015/04/12 05:07:51 (permalink)
    markyzno
    cool, show me how to get the transport to work with in Sonar with the S61 or Maschine then?
    I want my NI Kit to work with my HOME (Sonar) in terms of jog wheel, transport etc...

    There are two possible approaches:
    1. You understand how to make configuration. Start with "Startup" tutorial to get basics (will take 15 minutes, your transport should work then), following "ACT MIDI Explained" tutorial (plan 1-3 hours, at least read it if you do not have time to follow), the "User manual" will give you ideas what you can do (Jog for example, up to 1 hour to understand/test possibilities). You can also read help files for Mackie Control and VS-700 plug-ins for inspiration. You also should find out what Machine can do, especially what it can interpret on input (LED rings, PAD colors, etc.). And then... you can transpose ideas into configuration (I am in the near in case something is unclear, does not work or not yet implemented).
    2. Another way, which was used for mentioned R16 (see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3125708). You "scan" some preset of choice in Machine (what is sent on each control) and write me what you want these controls do. And I prepare ready to use preset using that information (effectively doing AZC related part from (1))
    You are asking for pairing one complicated system (Machine) with other complicated system (Sonar). The intermediate "module" (AZC) is also complicated system (do not be confused by its size or "old timer" interface).

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
    GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
    RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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