RME Babyface Pro

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gswitz
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/03 17:49:39 (permalink)
I have an RME UCX (same as UC but it has built in FX). I love mine. I would definitely get the UCX over the UC myself. I use those FX when mixing live.
 
If anything happened to my UCX, I would immediately replace it with another RME.
 
It can record two musicians with vocals with built in Pres (2 for mics, 2 for line ins).
 
I hook up an Audient ASP880 to mine. I also have an RME Quad Mic Pre to serve as a pre-amp for the additional 4 analog line ins on the back. It kinda makes it like a UFX, taking up a full 1U rackspace (1/2 for the Quad Mic Pre and 1/2 for the UCX). If I'd had the money all at once, it probably would have been better to go with the UFX.
 
But as it is, I can plug in my old Tascam 2488 to the UCX SPIDF port (this adds 8 more) and record 24 tracks at 44.1. That's enough for me. I need to borrow mics to get there. :-)
 
And I have often tossed it in my backpack and pedaled to a friends house with everything I need for a jam. :-)
 
When shopping, I suggest using the 'get quote' feature available on a number of pro audio sites to find out what they are actually charging for the UCX. You might pay less for a UCX than you might for a UC if you shop around.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#31
Jim Roseberry
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/03 17:52:11 (permalink)
Hi John,
 
FWIW, I wouldn't use the headphone outs to patch to a mixer (as they're unbalanced).
Babyface is an excellent low-latency performer.
The new MOTU Ultralite AVB is also an excellent low-latency performer.
Both achieve 4.9ms total round-trip latency with the smallest buffer size at 44.1k

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#32
gswitz
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/03 18:22:45 (permalink)
I just checked this at 44.1.
My UCX gets
3.7 msec round trip at 48 sample buffer.
4.5 msec round trip at 64 sample buffer.
5.9 msec round trip at 96 sample buffer.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#33
cclarry
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/03 18:47:47 (permalink)
GEAR LUST 


 



#34
mudgel
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/04 02:17:57 (permalink)
rumleymusic
then why does usb3 exist?

especially if no one is using it?

 
I use it all the time with hard drives.  I love the "speed."  Of course speed is not the right term.  More data at once (bandwidth) is more accurate.  I can run 30+ channels of 192kHz audio with my RME UFX on USB 2 at low latency.  It would not be any faster with USB3, Thunderbolt, Ethernet, or Magical Voodoo.  
 
RME does use USB3 with their 394 channel  Madiface XT.  That one probably needs it, so they used it.  
 
That is what is great about RME.  They don't try to trick you with gimmicks like two channels of thunderbolt audio, they just offer practical, high performing gear.   

A bit OT but the UFX is such a great unit. Early this year I sold my two FF800s and bought a UFX + remote. Totalmix is an awesome piece of driver software to go with it.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#35
jbraner
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/04 05:12:39 (permalink)
Thanks gswitz and Jim. I didn't think that using the headphone outs sounded like a great idea - but I'm sure I've seen the headphone outs marketed as "additional analog outs" ;-)
 
I don't really need the internal FX - but I'll look closer at the fireface UC and UCX then, and also the MOTU Ultralite AVB.
(There was another thread where Jim was talking about this - which seems to have disappeared...)

John Braner
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http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
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I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#36
gswitz
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/04 06:15:13 (permalink)
In addition to the FX on the UCX it has an 'AutoLevel' feature on 4 channels which is nice.
 
@Mike V., make sure you check out RME DigiCheck. You get that as well as TotalMix.
http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/driver/digicheck.php
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#37
jbraner
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/04 10:33:48 (permalink)
Thanks a lot for the advice - I'll do some homework ;-)

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
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- Reaper x64
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- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#38
rumleymusic
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/04 13:51:52 (permalink)
Do people use the headphone outs (on the Babyface) as "normal" analog outs? (into a mixer for example?)
 
 
It can be done, even if it is not recommended as a general practice due to balancing and impedance issues.  The quality of the DA on RME's headphones has always been equal to the rest of the box and the amps are very good.  Many companies skimp.  Low latency is not a problem, at least as far as the hardware goes.  

Daniel Rumley
Rumley Music and Audio Production
www.rumleymusic.com
#39
musicroom
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/05 15:49:52 (permalink)
When speaking of low latency with the Babyface Pro / Ultralite AVB - is it assumed that most are referring to low latency with modest vst usage? I can get decent low latency on my IT if the above is true. Otherwise, once the track count w/vst's start accumulating, then getting low latency requires disabling a lot of vsts. Curious to know if an interface with better drivers can overcome modest vst count.

 
Dave
Songs
___________________________________
Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW  I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM /  RME Babyface



 
 
#40
jbraner
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/05 16:42:17 (permalink)
music,
I think it's more about what the round trip latency time is - for a given sample buffer size. Let's assume that the more tracks/vsts you have, it's up to your PC to supply the grunt - but it seems that not all audio cards are created equal when setting latency to, say, 64 samples.
I've never used a USB audio interface before - I've always had PCI. It seems that USB interfaces generally have higher latencies for, say, 64 sample settings - than a PCI card would have. This is where a better driver will give you lower latencies for the same "sample buffer" settings.
 
Does that make sense?

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
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- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#41
pentimentosound
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/05 17:01:09 (permalink)
As I consider what I/O would be an improvement for me (conversion, mostly, latency and features in that order), your comments, John, make me miss my Aardvark Q10 a fabulous budget PCI interface with great preamps 10X10 plus you could stack more of them!, and never did I have an issue, till XP SP3 and Aardvark's dissolution. That was a choice leading to Antelope and I wish they'd come out with something more "budget" friendly.
Oh well.....
I always freeze VST tracks, so I don't seem to notice that kind of build-up.
Michael
#42
Jim Roseberry
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/05 17:13:25 (permalink)
If you have a well-configured current generation machine, you can run pretty substantial loads at low round-trip latency.  I leave my MOTU Ultralite AVB set at the smallest buffer sizes.
Rarely do I need to increase it (only on the most dense of projects).

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#43
musicroom
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/05 19:49:30 (permalink)
Good information! Thanks Guys

 
Dave
Songs
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Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW  I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM /  RME Babyface



 
 
#44
jbraner
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 04:25:56 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
If you have a well-configured current generation machine, you can run pretty substantial loads at low round-trip latency.  I leave my MOTU Ultralite AVB set at the smallest buffer sizes.
Rarely do I need to increase it (only on the most dense of projects).


Jim - you're really helping to steer me to the Ultralite AVB. It seems to be pretty similar to the RME Fireface UC, that I've also been looking at - but with the Fireface UC being 5 yrs old (or so), I'm thinking the newer Ultralite AVB might be a little better "future proofed".
 
I agree with Michael - if it weren't so expensive for a "good" (esp drivers etc) audio i/f - I wouldn't worry so much about "future proofing" ;-)

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
- Intel i7 3770K 3.5GHz
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- Reaper x64
- 16GB RAM
- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#45
tomixornot
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 04:50:07 (permalink)
Previously, I was deciding between the Behringer Air XR18 and the Tascam US 16x08 but since following this tread, I'm leaning towards the Motu Ultralite AVB.
 
I'm thinking the Motu is simply a better buy (compared to the Babyface Pro) as it has more input on the unit alone, can be expanded via ADAT (same with Babyface Pro).. but the AVB feature simply sets the unit above the Babyface.
 
Anyone having the same thought ?

Albert


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#46
mettelus
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 06:55:00 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
You might (also) want to checkout MOTU's new Ultralite AVB.
Low round-trip latency, solid drivers, and noise-floor of -112dB.



Quick question on "noise floor" as I have seen this comment made a few times (as a differentiator). When I got my interface, this article by Focusrite caught my eye, which basically says that many manufacturers quote the chip itself, and not how it performs in the system (which can be up to 12dB different).
 
Isn't this pretty much splitting hairs anyway, since in a digital realm this is so much lower than analog (i.e. the digital floor is so low it is almost "immaterial" as a differentiator)?

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#47
rumleymusic
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 12:46:49 (permalink)
 


Quick question on "noise floor" as I have seen this comment made a few times (as a differentiator). When I got my interface, this article by Focusrite caught my eye, which basically says that many manufacturers quote the chip itself, and not how it performs in the system (which can be up to 12dB different).
 
Isn't this pretty much splitting hairs anyway, since in a digital realm this is so much lower than analog (i.e. the digital floor is so low it is almost "immaterial" as a differentiator)?




Yes, many budget manufacturers just quote the maximum for the AD/DA chip(s).  I have seen as bad as one product claiming 124dB on the AD but it really only reached about 102dB due to an inferior PSU and analog circuitry.  
 
Depending on the application, a 100dB+ noise floor may be overkill, especially in a noisy recording environment.  It really depends on how much headroom you want to leave in the recording.  For live orchestral recordings, I don't want the peaks to reach anywhere near full scale due to stray spikes of 12dB or more beyond what I had planned for.  So a good noise floor on the AD is essential if the input needs to remain low.  
 
The "passive" noise properties of good analog circuitry has the capability of reaching about 130dB, not much more.  So the full 144dB of 24bit audio is impossible with today's technology.  

Daniel Rumley
Rumley Music and Audio Production
www.rumleymusic.com
#48
pentimentosound
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 13:00:07 (permalink)
I also think of noise floor in terms of softer/quieter tracks/parts like classical guitar, whispered vocals, etc.
If I get any noise, an expander will help, but I try to avoid that.
Michael
#49
ØSkald
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 18:10:12 (permalink)
What I imagine of this card is that the cables get out in all directions. No way to make it tidy. But the sound is the most important part.
And why USB3 or USB3.1, because there is much more voltage and ampere in it. You can get more steady power.

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#50
pentimentosound
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/06 19:16:30 (permalink)
Ditto! I don't really want all the cables sticking out on 3 sides (4?). I like to have all on the back with 2 mic/guitar and 2 phones on the front.
Michael
#51
rumleymusic
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/07 10:32:13 (permalink)
And why USB3 or USB3.1, because there is much more voltage and ampere in it. You can get more steady power.

 
Yeah, you can get a little more current at 5 volts DC with USB3, and that is helpful for low noise.  The nice thing about the preamp chips in the RME is that they run naively off of 5 volts rather than needing conversion to 18 like most analog controlled preamps, though they suck up a significant amount of current to compensate.  It is a little more compact.  I personally would never trust bus power to begin with and would probably keep the thing plugged in at all times.  

Daniel Rumley
Rumley Music and Audio Production
www.rumleymusic.com
#52
bluzdog
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/07 10:52:20 (permalink)
The math
rumleymusic
And why USB3 or USB3.1, because there is much more voltage and ampere in it. You can get more steady power.

 
Yeah, you can get a little more current at 5 volts DC with USB3, and that is helpful for low noise.  The nice thing about the preamp chips in the RME is that they run naively off of 5 volts rather than needing conversion to 18 like most analog controlled preamps, though they suck up a significant amount of current to compensate.  It is a little more compact.  I personally would never trust bus power to begin with and would probably keep the thing plugged in at all times.  




Amperage is inversely proportional to the voltage. If the transformer is in the device (interface) it shouldn't change the load on the usb port. Total watts are equal on both sides of the transformer. P=IxE. Voltage conversion shouldn't be a factor after it leaves the usb port.
 
Rocky
#53
rumleymusic
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/07 11:53:35 (permalink)
Amperage is inversely proportional to the voltage. If the transformer is in the device (interface) it shouldn't change the load on the usb port.

 
Yes, current and voltage are inversely proportional as you say.  At 5 volts, a greater amount of current is required to power an opamp than if the voltage rails were 18volts.  The power required is the same, ie. Volts*Amps=Watts.  I didn't mean to imply the draw on the usb supply would be different.  
 
I just meant to say that all the circuitry necessary to utilize the opamp's power needs from a 5 volt supply is very conveniently integrated into the chip itself, rather than needing to ramp up the voltage beforehand.  

Daniel Rumley
Rumley Music and Audio Production
www.rumleymusic.com
#54
mudgel
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/14 10:50:12 (permalink)
gswitz
In addition to the FX on the UCX it has an 'AutoLevel' feature on 4 channels which is nice.
 
@Mike V., make sure you check out RME DigiCheck. You get that as well as TotalMix.
http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/driver/digicheck.php
 


Yes. I've had RME gear for over a decade and been using Digicheck for ages too. It's a great diagnostic tool, not to mention a great vanilla recording interface for live work.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
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#55
jbraner
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/17 16:15:42 (permalink)
but the AVB feature simply sets the unit above the Babyface.

 
Albert,
AVB (on the Ultralite AVB) only works on Macs right now. I don't know how easy or hard it will be to get this working with Windows...

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
- Intel i7 3770K 3.5GHz
- Windows 10 Pro - 64 bit
- Cakewalk by BandLab x64
- Reaper x64
- 16GB RAM
- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#56
tomixornot
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/18 14:42:17 (permalink)
jbraner
but the AVB feature simply sets the unit above the Babyface.

 
Albert,
AVB (on the Ultralite AVB) only works on Macs right now. I don't know how easy or hard it will be to get this working with Windows...




John,
 
I was reading about the AVB feature. One way the Ethernet can be used (if not using the USB) is to connect it to the Mac.
 
The one I was referring to is the AVB feature is to expand the inputs by using two Ultralite AVB and connect both units via the Ethernet cable, I believe this is possible for both PC and Mac ?
 
http://www.motu.com/products/avb/ultralite-avb/networking.html
 

Albert


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#57
pentimentosound
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Re: RME Babyface Pro 2015/05/20 12:26:27 (permalink)
With M'day sales coming up, it occurs to me that I could buy either a Saffire Pro 40 (+I'd need a FW card)or a Scarlett 18i20 and still recoup some money from my Tascam us1641. The Tascam us16X08 won't be available at my local shop till July, and I suppose there might be one online with these 20% sales.
I guess the only reason I still think about FW is the option to add a UAD Satellite and perhaps keeping my I/O separate from other usb stuff.
Anyway that is about the range of my budget for the end of May and I am considering it.
Michael
#58
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