Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum

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Ricebug
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2015/04/18 07:27:49 (permalink)

Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum

Can any one explain how to route this plugin? I have the MIDI data the vocal track is to follow to create the harmonies, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to blend the MIDI into the plugin. Antares says to place the plugin into the FX chain of the vocal track. Their presets work fine on the vocal track. I just can't figure out how to get the MIDI to control the plugin.

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/18 15:51:28 (permalink)
    I hadn't tried this before, but I finally got it to work.  Insert the HE EVO in the FX bin on the vocal.  Click on the "VST2" button in the menu bar at the top of the plugin window and select "Plug-In Properties".  Check the "Configure as Synth" box. Close.  Now go to your MIDI harmony guide track and you should now be able to select the Harmony Engine as the MIDI output.  Then in HE EVO in the Harmony Control section in the upper right corner, set the "Harmony Source" to your preferred MIDI input.  I was lazy and used "OMNI" for this since I didn't have any other MIDI in this project, and just wanted to see if I could get it to work.  The MIDI Channels option might be more useful but could be a little more problematic since you can't select the channels - it looks like you have to use channels 1-4 (from the manual):
     
    MIDI Channels Mode
    In MIDI Channels mode, channels 1-4 of the MIDI bus assigned to Harmony Engine Evo are routed to the matching numbered harmony voice channels.
     
    About Routing MIDI to Harmony Engine Evo
    In order to use the MIDI Harmony Control modes described above, you must be able to route MIDI data to Harmony Engine Evo. The method of routing MIDI to a plug-in varies pretty dramatically (both in technique and ease) among various hosts. If you are unsure how to do it in your particular host, you should refer to your host’s manual for instructions. In addition, check the Read Me that accompanies Harmony Engine Evo for a guide to a few of the more obscure routing schemes
     
    The downloaded installer doesn't have the ReadMe or Tutorials so I couldn't look into this further.  But that should get you going.
     
     
     
    post edited by SF_Green - 2015/04/18 17:55:59

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    #2
    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/18 17:09:59 (permalink)
    SF_GreenInsert the HE EVO in the FX bin on the vocal.  Right click on it in the FX bin and select "Properties".  Check the "Configure as Synth" box. Close.
    I don't see any properties in the dropdown menu:




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    ArcRex
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/18 17:46:38 (permalink)
    I had the same problem following the instructions.
    1.Put the HE in the FX bin
    2. open the HE
    3.click VST3 in the opened HE window Which will give you the plug in properties page
    4. click the plug in property page
    5 Check the "Configure as Synth" box
    6. click the VST3 button again and 'select enable midi input'
    Then open a midi track and direct the output to the harmony engine that is now availible. I am not sure all thise steps are really needed. I did not need to do step 3-5. But I also had not been able to figure HE out to  SF_Green's response so thanks
    #4
    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/18 17:50:58 (permalink)
    My bad!   I edited the original post but here is the relevant bit:
     
    Click on the "VST2" button in the menu bar at the top of the plugin window and select "Plug-In Properties".
    post edited by SF_Green - 2015/04/18 19:43:38

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/18 18:12:46 (permalink)
    Here:
     

    post edited by SF_Green - 2015/04/18 18:21:31

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/18 18:29:14 (permalink)
    You can also do it from the old Plug-In Manager and hit the properties button.  It brings up the same screen.  The main thing is to get HE EVO configured as a synth so it can have MIDI input routed to it.

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    #7
    mudgel
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 06:09:56 (permalink)
    SF_Green
    You can also do it from the old Plug-In Manager and hit the properties button.  It brings up the same screen.  The main thing is to get HE EVO configured as a synth so it can have MIDI input routed to it.


    Your screen capture shows you are using VST2. Do you know that there are VST3 versions available.

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    #8
    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 10:04:14 (permalink)
    I contacted Anatares a few months ago and posted their reply. In it, they confess to a problem with their VST3 versions conflicting with Sonar, and recommended using the VST2 ones.
     
    At any rate, I did something wrong. I finally got the thing to work, as you guys have shown me. However, the harmony output was horrible. It appears that the HE plugin is taking input from ALL the MIDI tracks in the song, not just the one with the chords. But in an effort to delete the tracks, I lost the plugin altogether. When I fired up Sonar again, I got a "can't find Harmony Engine EVO, etc." It disappeared from the plugins list. A rescan failed to resurrect it from the binary graveyard.
     
    My old TC-Helicon Voice Prism Plus is looking better and better. This whole software-based synthesis is just too unreliable, at least on a Windoze machine.

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 13:53:41 (permalink)
    Hi mudgel, yes I did, but I've never gotten it to even show up in my VST3 list  (when showing "All Plug-ins").  Maybe this is the 'conflict' that Antares fessed up to Ricebug about.  Know any tricks to make that happen?

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 14:10:31 (permalink)
    Ricebug
    It appears that the HE plugin is taking input from ALL the MIDI tracks in the song, not just the one with the chords.



    Did you try using the MIDI Channels option?  To start you should re-assign any other MIDI tracks to channels other than 1,2,3, or 4.  Then depending on how complex your harmony is create a MIDI track for channels 1,2,3, or 4 each would play a single note of your harmony.  You need to select the Harmony Engine as the MIDI output on each track then the channels now show as 1: Harmony Engine x64 , 2: Harmony Engine x64, etc.  Based on what the manual says this is how it "should" work.  I have not tried this yet so.... best of luck!  Hope this helps.
     

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 14:25:16 (permalink)
    Ok.  I just tried using MIDI Channels as I posted above and that worked for me.  I had a piano in an audio channel (bounced from Inst track using MIDI channel 5 so no conflicts later) with the Harmony Engine inserted, set it to MIDI Channels for the Harmony Control.  Created 3 MIDI tracks each set to output to the HE, and set to channels 1,2, and 3 respectively.  Recorded my individual harmony notes to each track.  It then played the original piano with the 3 harmony notes upon playback.
     
    This is with the VST2 x64 version of the plug-in on Sonar Plat Cambridge.  My HE EVO version is 4.0.0.7 which I think is the latest.

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    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 18:50:58 (permalink)
    SF_GreenDid you try using the MIDI Channels option?
    This is where I lost my plugin. Everytime I tried changing it, the stupid plugin would put it into MIDI Chords mode when I hit playback. So I deleted everything associated with the HE plugin to start with a clean slate. However, when I re-started Sonar, I got the "missing plugin" error and then saw that it had been removed from the VST audio FX list in the browser.
    When I rescan the plugins, Sonar sees it but it's still missing from the browser list.

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    SF_Green
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/19 21:32:48 (permalink)
    Ricebug
    SF_GreenDid you try using the MIDI Channels option?
    This is where I lost my plugin. Everytime I tried changing it, the stupid plugin would put it into MIDI Chords mode when I hit playback. So I deleted everything associated with the HE plugin to start with a clean slate. However, when I re-started Sonar, I got the "missing plugin" error and then saw that it had been removed from the VST audio FX list in the browser.
    When I rescan the plugins, Sonar sees it but it's still missing from the browser list.




    Wow!  That sounds pretty messed up.  Don't know how to help you with that, sorry.

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    #14
    mudgel
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/20 04:08:18 (permalink)
    SF_Green
    Hi mudgel, yes I did, but I've never gotten it to even show up in my VST3 list  (when showing "All Plug-ins").  Maybe this is the 'conflict' that Antares fessed up to Ricebug about.  Know any tricks to make that happen?

    No tricks. The last update that Antares did was supposed to address Sonar issues and it just installed and worked fine. This was a while coming though and there were lots of probs when AVOX 4 first came out! So I haven't used it much. Now I use iZoptope's Nectar 2.

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    #15
    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/20 17:34:57 (permalink)
    Here's a response from Antares on how to rig the Harmony Engine for Sonar:
     
    Hi Terry.
    It is a little bit tricky to do this in Sonar. You will first need to configure Harmony Engine as a VSTi plugin. Here’s how to do that: 
    1. Open Sonar
    2. In "Utilities," choose "Cakewalk Plug-In Manager."
    3. Harmony Engine EVO will be found under the "VST Audio Effects" the left hand "Plug-In Categories."
    4. Please highlight "Harmony Engine."
    5. Under the "VST Configuration," (in the lower middle of the "Cakewalk Plug-in Manager") click "Plug-in Properties."
    6. In the "VST Plug-in Properties" window, choose "Configure as synth."
    7. Click "OK."
    8. Harmony Engine will now appear under the "VST Instruments (VSTi)" in the "Plug-In Categories."
    9. Click "Close" to close the "Cakewalk Plug-in Manager."
    10. Close and relaunch Sonar.
    11. Harmony Engine will now be available as a VSTi insert.
    12. On your audio track go to "insert soft synth” and choose Harmony Engine.
    13. Create a midi track and set it’s output to Harmony Engine.
     
    Matt Antares
    Audio Technologies
     
    FYI for everyone, I was able to get the plugin back by a simple reinstall of the plugin and a reset/rescan within the Cakewalk Plugin Manager.
     

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    Vastman
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/21 01:19:52 (permalink)
    Ricebug... yes you can do it the way Matt says, which is what my neighbor, SF green said... but its now easier by doing it as others have suggested.
     
    It works fine here also... mucked around a bit last night...multiple instances, no probs...
     
    Hey, Mike... yea, I enjoyed the Nectar 2 system while I demoed it over the holidays thinking bout the super deal on the bundle...but ended up going all FAB instead.... Glad I did!
     
    Quite frankly, they all suck...both sounded very synthetic... nuttin' like the real thing! Maybe as a backdrop for "big" harmonies, behind several real ones... I'll have to try that!
    post edited by Vastman - 2015/04/21 01:26:48

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    #17
    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/21 07:31:28 (permalink)
    VastmanQuite frankly, they all suck...both sounded very synthetic... nuttin' like the real thing! Maybe as a backdrop for "big" harmonies, behind several real ones... I'll have to try that!
    True. I typically layer real harmonies over synthetic ones, giving them a nice, fat sound.


    Also, you can copy a vocal, and raise/lower it in Melodyne Essential. Then, with some judicious use of the formant control, get rid of the chipmunk and robot sound.
     
    Another trick is to have a MIDI melody of the harmony parts sent individually to the singer's headphones. After a bit of practice, they should be able to accurately track and sing along with the MIDI track, giving you a decent harmony voice. Depending on the part, you may have to raise or lower the pitch if they can't sing that high or low.

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    #18
    mudgel
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2015/04/22 03:49:45 (permalink)
    They're all bits of kit. They all come in handy sometime, somewhere. In the past when I was still working, if it was profitable, I would buy a plugin just to do a single job.

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    ZincTrumpet
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2016/06/05 05:07:58 (permalink)
    I have been getting great results layering Harmony EVO harmonies behind vocal tracks mainly using Chord mode. I find using AUX tracks great for this as you can record multiple variations of EVO harmony outputs onto separate AUX tracks and create enormous sounding vocal harmonies without much CPU impact.
     
    For songs where there are only a few chords I found that I can select the chords "on the fly" as the song is playing but I have also been experimenting with automation for more complex songs and it kind of works but I can't get my head around how Cakewalk displays the results. The results are displayed as lines with nodes just like they would be for, say, volume automation. Works fine for volume - I can understand how the line equates to volume, but I don't get how it equates to selection of a specific chord button in the harmony preset block. Consequently, where it has recorded the automation incorrectly I cannot see how to edit/correct the automation. The chord buttons are shown as, for example, H Button 1 1 or 1 2 (row 1 col 2) in different colours but I cannot see how to change these or even add them from scratch (rather than recording them) so that I can create the correct sequence of chord changes. 
     
    Can anyone please explain how to do this in Sonar?
     
    Thanks in advance
    #20
    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2016/06/05 09:01:34 (permalink)
    I feel your pain. I gave up on most of the Antares plugins. The Harmony EVO was first to go. Too complicated and anemic documentation. I could never find the nodes or automation lanes you refer to, so I just gave up.
     
    Nectar 2 is apparently much easier to use, according to testimony on these forums. It has a free, limited trial.
     
    EDIT: Changed unlimited trial to limited trial. OOPS!
    post edited by Ricebug - 2016/06/05 15:40:30

    Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
    #21
    ZincTrumpet
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2016/06/05 09:55:39 (permalink)
    Thanks Ricebug. I am not quite ready to give up on HE just yet as I think it works really well, just wish I could get the hang of the automation. I also use it with MIDI tracks to generate the harmonies but I like the spread and register options that the chord mode allows. 
     
    Nectar 2 does look nice and a lot easier than HE too. I will definitely try the free trial. Also, as I have Nectar Elements I could upgrade for around 120 uk pounds. It's tempting :)
     
    Thanks
    #22
    Ricebug
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2016/06/05 15:23:55 (permalink)
    Cool. BTW, that's supposed to be LIMITED (10-day) trial, not unlimited. I fixed it.

    Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
    #23
    ZincTrumpet
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    Re: Using Antares Harmony Engine EVO in Sonar Platinum 2016/06/06 08:25:20 (permalink)
    Ah yes, I just assumed you meant that the trial was unlimited (but only for 10 days) rather than cut down if you get my drift.
     
    Cheers
    #24
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