Another Latency question

Sorry if this is redundant, but I've searched the forum and read other posts and can't resolve.
 
I'm experiencing excessive delay trying to record electric guitar.  I've cranked the ASIO buffer down to "2 ms" using my driver interface (Scarlett MixControl); in Cakewalk this reports a roundtrip latency of 6.2 ms.  I'm fine with just the guitar, no audible latency - but then I only hear the raw guitar signal with no effects, which makes it hard for me to have a good take with feeling in it.  If I turn on the Input Echo button so I get the Fx, there's a huge delay.  (I use Guitar Rig, but even with GR off and no Fx, it's still a huge delay with Input Echo.)  And I have no other Synths, no other Fx right now -I'm at the start of a new project with everything clean.  If I use the "Zero-Latency" on my Interface, that's also just the dry guitar signal with no Fx.
 
Is there a way around this, so I can actually hear some Fx on the performance to get the feel?  Or is it just my computer is inadequate?  (You can see my equipment in the signature.  I've removed all other audio drivers.)

I would reinstall asio drivers! to begin with....remove, restart, install.....

Bypassing Fx doesn't really solve my problem - I am actually wanting to have some degree of Fx to get a feel of the sound while playing.  Plus it doesn't change the delay with Input Echo.  I'm actually OK with just the dry signal, since I can get zero latency with direct monitoring through my interface or with the dry signal through Sonar.
 
I can stick with a direct output from my a guitar amp (having the dry guitar signal to run through Guitar Rig, but getting an overall feel audibly from the amp), I was just hoping for a way to do it all internally in Sonar.

Use an amp?

MorganT
Bypassing Fx doesn't really solve my problem - I am actually wanting to have some degree of Fx to get a feel of the sound while playing.  Plus it doesn't change the delay with Input Echo.  I'm actually OK with just the dry signal, since I can get zero latency with direct monitoring through my interface or with the dry signal through Sonar.
 
I can stick with a direct output from my a guitar amp (having the dry guitar signal to run through Guitar Rig, but getting an overall feel audibly from the amp), I was just hoping for a way to do it all internally in Sonar.

Save your guitar rig tone as a preset and try to play it through the standalone version of guitar rig ...
 

• if you have noticable latency there in GR5 that distracts you, you need to adjust the preset (change some FX in the chain) ...

• if you don't have noticable latency, then some other FX (or several) inside Sonar cause the latency ... disable all and just use the most important ones (switch them on one by one to see which is causing it)

I use my Saffire at 64-128 buffer often with GR5. The only thing that comes to mind is that "too low" can be CPU intensive, and GR5 has a built-in HI/LO CPU option in the upper right. Is that set to low?

I run with an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 when recording, and do so with Input Echo On all the time, with no latency problems, so I am quite confused.
 
If you are running Windows 7, you can run either DPC Latency Checker or LatencyMon, and if you are running Windows 8 you can run LatencyMon.  Both are freeware programs.  You would download and run while Sonar is not running, for a 2-3 minutes, and then look at their analysis in the output, to get a feel for whether or not there is something outside of Sonar that is interfering with your DPC latency.
 
Oh, I am also running x64, with a Sample Rate of 48 k.
 
Do you happen to have WiFi?
 
Lastly, it sure sounds like something like an effect - something like a convoluted reverb, or Boost11 or that sort of thing.  Someone above this had asked about what happens if you bypass effects ('E' on your keyboard), but don't recall if you had posted back on that having any effect on things or not.
 
I have to run - but will come back and read through the thread again when I get back.
 
Bob Bone
 

I'm not sure it's actually a computer "latency" issue(?), as it ONLY is an issue with Input Echo on, regardless of Fx setting.  (I didn't use keyboard "E", but used the FX button in the menu bar - pretty sure that's the same thing.)  It's fine running through standalone GR5 - It seems to me if if's processing latency of the computer alone, that should induce the same latency; but I get the delay with Input Echo on regardless of FX settings for that track or all tracks.  So I think you're right, there's something else inducing the processing delay within Sonar, since global FX off minimizes the delay.  But shouldn't turning off all Fx in every Fx bin do the same thing as global FX bypass?
 
This project is also sampled at 48k
 
And yes I have WiFi.
 
Also got rid of land line very recently and had a cellular module installed so our house phones run through a cellular "line", with the module being on the wall outside my studio.

I can run GR5 in Sonar with input echo enabled and no noticeable latency at all (24bit/44.1KHz, 48 sample buffer = 5ms round trip latency). I also input echo up to another dozen audio tracks at the same time, though once in a while I have to increase the buffer to 64 samples if I've multiple fx running as well.

Any latency you're getting isn't an inherent design problem in Sonar or we'd all be seeing the same thing.

Try going into Windows control panel/device manager. Right click on the wifi adaptor entry and disable (not uninstall) it before running Sonar. See if that makes a difference. Wifi adaptors are notorious for causing huge (in computer terms) latency spikes on data transfer through the PCI bus (which handles all the data flow through a PC) which aren't noticable for most PC uses but cause havoc with DAWs.

Secondly check you've no compressors using look- ahead or convolution reverbs in the project. They can also cause latency issues and are best added at the mixing stage. Some software synths can cause latency issues as well.

If I remember rightly, simply switching plugins to bypass does not have the same effect as bypassing all effects via the E hotkey or control bar. If a plugin is just bypassed in the channel strip or plugin interface Sonar treats it as if still operating because it can be switched on at any time (including by automation), so Sonar still makes allowance for the time the plug reports it needs to process audio. That way clicks, dropouts and lurches are avoided if the plugin is enabled while the transport is running.

The bypass all effects command should result in Sonar treating plugins as not existing at all.

I would use external effects...stomp boxes, or all in one unit, or such...and record the guitar ...if you must have the effect on while recording...or get a uad with plugins of choice, or something a liken to add with out strain on cpu of the computer, or to reduce delay...if that works?...why not just clean guitar, and turn on the effects after the recording?...well I guess some play the effect..must be the reasoning here.?.

1. The whole point of having low latency is so that we can use some fx whiled owing record-monitoring.

2. There are also times when I want to record the actual fx so I'll arrange setting up my sound outside the box.

Generally I like to do 1 in preference to 2.

There should be an answer to this, I have what might be considered an underpowered processor nowadays, a Q6600 quadcore, but have never had a problem recording GR4 or now 5 using input echo on low buffers. I tend to agree with a few others in here, that perhaps the latency on some other fx may be stacking up the problem. With an i5, a decent audio interface and the correct drivers, you should be good to go. Think about it, your ASIO control is showing low latency, (mine is 3ms and 12ms round trip which is almost double yours at 6.2ms ) so I believe there really is an ITB fix to this for you to find.