SONAR live with tracks and lights

Hi. We do this (and many others meanwhile) ... click track, several playback tracks & changing mixer scenes and FX via Sonar ... no video (yet) ...
 
A few tips:

1. you need a digital mixer that can handle the audio output in a rock solid manner (don't use a regular audio interface)
2. create a Sonar template that fits your exact needs (might be an iterative process)
3. one song = one Sonar project (not all songs in one project)
4. check out the playlist feature in Sonar - that's the key to a flexible setlist (drag and drop to change song order)
5. test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test ... because there are pitfalls that may be very specific to your setup (e.g. we had a hidden MIDI loop problem that crashed the mixer .... it appeared all the sudden and took ages to figure out ... real nightmare)

Have fun :-)

I'm thinking of trying to use Sonar and the Playlist for my solo act.
It would be cool if different people who are doing this could add their advice and compare notes. 
 
I use stereo tracks played from Win Amp but I miss the old day's of midi playback which also controlled my effects. Lights would be cool too, never did it but I understand how it works. 
 
Not sure post in #2 what you meant by not using an audio interface? Seems that good solid ASIO drivers would be the ticket. Do you mean not running the vocals through an audio interface? I would agree with that. 
My plan would be 4 audio tracks out from my Tascam us1641 and the midi from the us1641 driving a few devices like my Lexicon effects unit. 

Kicksville's live show is completely built around Sonar. I can go into more details if you want, but basically, all the technical elements you see in this video are driven by Sonar: lights, video, MTC feeds, patch changes for the remote computers (we have 8 onstage), and console automation. The mix you hear is actually the 2-track mix we send to FOH, recorded directly back into Sonar during the show, with no post-processing beyond a limiter to bring the levels up for the video.
 
https://youtu.be/omElhthKQIQ
 
A lot of folks do this, but we've taken it far beyond most.... 70 inputs, 10 stereo monitor mixes, extensive dynamic automation (meaning we don't just change scenes on the console - we're directly controlling things like FX sends, channel EQ, etc.), and a lot more.
 
Some things to keep in mind as you try and implement this kind of thing into your show:
- We have everything laid out in one large Sonar project, so there's no loading files during the show. Some folks use the playlist feature or call up separate files for each song, but for us, one file was a better solution considering lighting changes and video cues happen between songs.
- Don't stress the main computer. The less load you put on a machine, the less likely it is to crash. We have separate machines for each person's rig, running softsynths, VST effects, etc., so the master machine doesn't have to do the heavy lifting.
- Test, test, test, and test again.
- Take the time to carefully prep any playback tracks. Match RMS levels from song to song, and make sure things aren't going to surprise you at the gig. For example, that 808 bass drum that sounds awesome at home may have so much 40Hz that when you play it back on a full PA, you rattle the trusses out of the grid ;-)
- Did I mention testing?
 
I'd be happy to go into more detail about the technical details if you'd like, but it's pretty complicated and involves lots of eye-wateringly dense Excel spreadsheets I can say this though: in 7 years of doing this show, we've never had a single problem with Sonar. Not once. So, there you have it.
 
cheers!

Yo!! Kicksville - great show dude and a brilliant use of Sonar.

Sir William
Yo!! Kicksville - great show dude and a brilliant use of Sonar.

Thanks, man!

Sonar Platinum is the heart of our shows. We're currently doing an amazing version of Les Miserables. Sonar sends the time code to our lights and projections, and program changes to our digital mixing console. Sonar also hosts all the effect sends to our performers. It's pretty amazing to automate the verbs in a live setting. And yes we use the "Playlist" to do it.

Thanks again everyone, this is some good stuff for me to consider. I will definitely be starting with a much more basic setup than most of you. Something like this...
 
Audio Tracks: SONAR on a laptop with an audio/Midi interface with maybe 8 analog outputs. All those outputs going into a snake on stage (just like any other signal from the stage). Then at the mixer simply mix the tracks from the laptop with the live instrument channels.
 
Lights: I'm not so sure how this will work, but I'm assumed one track on SONAR will send Midi messages to the interface, then out to the light controller, no? I wasn't thinking any time code would be needed, but I may be wrong.
 
Video: Not too sure of this exactly either, but my thought was a video track in SONAR will be sent to the external monitor output on the laptop, then to a projector or big screen of some type.
 
Am I on the right path?
 
Thanks!
Kimmie
 
 
 

Kimmie
Lights: I'm not so sure how this will work, but I'm assumed one track on SONAR will send Midi messages to the interface, then out to the light controller, no? I wasn't thinking any time code would be needed, but I may be wrong.

 
That will depend on how you program the lights. With most lighting software and/or consoles, it's really your choice whether you want to trigger cues with a controller/NRPN, note event, or SMPTE/MTC.
 

Kimmie
Video: Not too sure of this exactly either, but my thought was a video track in SONAR will be sent to the external monitor output on the laptop, then to a projector or big screen of some type.
 

My suggestion would be to have video playback hosted on a different computer, and triggered by MTC, SMPTE, or controller events. It's not that Sonar *can't* handle video playback, but I'd rather trust software designed for video: you'll have more control over the video output, and depending on which software you use, a lot more internal video capabilities. We use Vegas for video playback, but there are plenty of options out there (and some with way more fun live on-the-fly doodads, like Arkaos). Plus, as I mentioned in the earlier post, distributing the load means no one machine is working too hard.
 
cheers

Hey Conrad, 
I really appreciate your thoughtful responses to these posts.  A couple of years ago when I was asking similar questions a majority of the answers were along the lines of, "Sonar was never designed to do this - get another tool".  Usually the recommendation was ableton live and Forte. Frankly that left me a little frustrated with the not just the product, but what I saw at the time as a kind of unwillingness to experiment and really push such a great tool to its full potential.  I was really feeling down about asking what seemed to be a universally known fact that sonar cannot and should not be trusted in a live situation.  
Your videos of Kicksville in action really showed me that it wasn't a dumb question to ask or impossible by any stretch of the imagination.  I had to be really creative though, because the limiting factors were: my system (only an athlon xII laptop @2.2 GHz - NO BACKUP), my gear (one controller keyboard - NO BACKUP), and frankly me.  
I have had matrix view working to trigger sound fx and synth patterns (much of the shows were "improvised") as well as about 8 soft synths per project I could play live.  
I'm doing more now thanks to folks like you who are doing it really reliably and in a BIG BIG way.  I'm integrating using arduino devices receiving midi data triggered via the matrix to control electronics and lights which is just total geek fun!  Video is typically handled on another machine running pure data and is also triggered via matrix.  
It really is a joy. 
I would agree with everybody else  - TEST TEST TEST.  At least once a day for a week before the show for at least as long as the show will last.  
The other thing that clinched the deal and made me take what seemed to be a huge leap of faith with sonar was my partner, who basically said "how long will it take to restart your computer?" I said "about a minute".  He said "takes me longer to change a guitar string - let's do it". 
 
To the OP, I stayed away from playlist because my partner would call next song on the fly so I had all the projects open then tabbed/window switched to the appropriate one. Figure out what you NEED and what you WANT.  Nail down what you need first and then build up.  Don't use very latent plugins.  If you have a backup daw get a usb switch so you don't have to unplug and re-plug the interface to the second machine.  Have a plan for things to go wrong.  We were doing dissonant electronica/industrial so we had a cd player with just screeching and squelching a'la nurse with wound to go if I needed to reset.    
 
I can't think of much else, but I can tell you that when it went right I was really quite happy with the result, and maybe the most important this was I learned more about sonar than any other time I had used it to that point.