DonM
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Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
All:
Can someone explain to me the distinction between Multi-band compression and Dynamic EQ in attenuation mode #and# Multi-band expansion and Dynamic EQ in gain mode.
I'm conceptually struggling with when to use either or the other .....
Thanks
-D
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bitflipper
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/25 11:41:48
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☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2015/04/25 13:00:30
The difference is subtle, and 90% of the time either one will do the job.
With multi-band compression, you first split the incoming signal into bands using steep filters and then compress each band separately before recombining them. With a dynamic equalizer, there are no steep filters unless you want them, and no need to recombine bands. A dynamic EQ can therefore be more transparent because you avoid issues that are inherent in steep filters.
The spectral effect is also different. Dynamic EQ can be more precisely targeted. With a multi-band compressor, all frequencies within a given band are compressed equally. A dynamic EQ can do this too if you want, but alternatively it can also apply the effect to a specific frequency or as a high- or low-shelf.
Dynamic EQs can also be used for expansion as well as compression. If you've got a vocal, for example, that lacks bite, a dynamic equalizer can be used to boost the upper-mids only for those phrases in which they're lacking while leaving other phrases alone that already have enough bite.
As you can probably guess, I'm a fan of dynamic equalizers. Although either will work 90% of the time, I cannot off the top of my head think of any scenario where a multi-band compressor would do a better job than a dynamic EQ.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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gswitz
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/25 12:03:21
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Bit is the one to listen to. He has published on the subject.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/25 12:59:30
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I have had a dynamic eq for only three days and I may never use a Mbc again. Still getting used to it, but i can already do what i do with an mbc without the downside issues.
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interpolated
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/25 18:25:29
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I use a multiband dynamics tool which can gate, compress or expand. Although I tend to try use slight eq to boost frequencies in the mix whenever I have the opportunity.
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DonM
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/25 19:37:44
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Bit (and all):
Thanks for the responses. A couple things I'd add to the discussion:
First, the steep filters in MBC is certainly a distinguishing factor with DEQ.
How about phase linearity in DEQ vs. MBC. It would seem subtle but a distinction none the less.
WRT MultiBand expansion, it would seem DEQ in gain mode would be far more subtle and surgical in application.
And a final thought .... in this comparison context .... what is a de-esser? is it a DEQ?
Thanks in advance.
-D
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gswitz
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/25 19:48:16
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Traditionally, De-Essing usually meant compression around 2K. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but that's the old school way. Since a mono vocal track usually needs de-essing when other sounds aren't occurring, you can achieve the end by sending the vocal to a compressor and a copy of the vocal with EQ cut hard everywhere but what you want reduced (like 2K range) to the side-chain. Then the compressor will trigger when those sounds pass, even if those sounds aren't very loud (because they are loud on the side-chained version). Since the side-chained version doesn't have any mids or lows, it will not compress the vocal during those. The technique has come a long way. There are a million plugins that do it a million different ways. But I think what I describe above counts as old-school de-essing. Now, multiband DEQ is easily done with plugins and certainly does the trick. You can also use a massively multiband compressor. You could still use the side-chain to the massively multiband compressor to get it to pay closer attention to sibilance.
post edited by gswitz - 2015/04/25 19:55:31
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/26 21:49:00
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A de-esser is neither MBC nor DEQ. It is technically a broadband compressor with a bandpass filter in the sidechain.
Both multiband compressors and dynamic equalizers can be used for de-essing, but a conventional de-esser is going to be the most transparent in the most common scenario, vocals.
In terms of phase linearity, both dynamic EQs and MBCs do effect phase shifts, the former more so than the latter. If that's important in a particular project, that would be one instance where a multiband compressor wins over a dynamic equalizer. However, unless you're doing something wacky, phase shifts won't be enough of a concern to be the deciding factor.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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olemon
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/29 21:52:26
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I've just discovered MB Compression! Who knew? Well, you guys did, but I didn't. Now I have to go back to the mixes I've done so far and make them sound like they're supposed to:)
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bitflipper
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/29 22:17:47
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☄ Helpfulby olemon 2015/04/30 07:04:15
Works great on vocals, too, not just the master bus.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Kamikaze
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/30 11:49:59
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So if you had just one Mastering tool (regards the sound polishing side of mastering, instead of the release format prep) would it be a Dynamic EQ Bit?
I believe you are talking about the MELDA Dynamic EQ too, aren't you?
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bitflipper
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/30 13:36:46
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I have several dynamic equalizers, but yes, MDynamicEQ is the one I use most.
Oddly, though, I rarely use dynamic EQs or multi-band compressors for mastering anymore. If I do any master bus compression at all, and I usually don't, it'll more likely be Kotelnikov from Tokyo Dawn.
Interesting question, what would the ONE tool be if I could only have one. I presume we're excluding limiters. I think that one tool would be MSpectralDynamics.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/30 14:22:37
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bitflipper
I have several dynamic equalizers, but yes, MDynamicEQ is the one I use most.
Oddly, though, I rarely use dynamic EQs or multi-band compressors for mastering anymore. If I do any master bus compression at all, and I usually don't, it'll more likely be Kotelnikov from Tokyo Dawn.
Interesting question, what would the ONE tool be if I could only have one. I presume we're excluding limiters. I think that one tool would be MSpectralDynamics.
Could you elaborate on why that is, please?
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dmbaer
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/04/30 15:07:10
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☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2015/04/30 15:36:59
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Kamikaze
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/05/01 02:44:52
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bitflipper
I have several dynamic equalizers, but yes, MDynamicEQ is the one I use most.
Oddly, though, I rarely use dynamic EQs or multi-band compressors for mastering anymore. If I do any master bus compression at all, and I usually don't, it'll more likely be Kotelnikov from Tokyo Dawn.
Interesting question, what would the ONE tool be if I could only have one. I presume we're excluding limiters. I think that one tool would be MSpectralDynamics.
Just read your article on (well the third part) and can see why you have such and enthusiasm for it. Way more versatile and effective then I had imagined. I enjoyed your writing style, like many of your explanations on the forum, you have a way of relaxing the experience of understanding something.
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mettelus
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/05/01 10:29:54
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Dang, is that Melda's "king pin" plug? Solo purchase that is 20% of the MTotalBundle (all 78 plugs). Edit: I need to stay clear of Bit's posts, he keeps giving me GAS  I read Bit's review and am a little confused by adding this to the master buss... reason it caught my eye is that the guy I touched base with sent me demos and some tracks were not mixed the best, but there was nothing I could really do with them (vocals masked in most cases). I just mastered them "as is" since he intends to re-track anyway. Can that plugin be used in this case where the track is already "baked"?
post edited by mettelus - 2015/05/01 11:20:54
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bitflipper
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/05/01 19:27:18
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Nope, if the vocals are already buried there's not much you can do without stems.
However, this plug can expose many subtleties that were previously masked, things such as the jangle of a tambourine, the "ting" of a ride cymbal or pick attacks on acoustic guitar. But it can't do magic. The mix has to already be pretty good, then it just adds the frosting. Or to be more accurate, it takes away some excess frosting.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mettelus
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/05/01 20:44:03
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Thanks Bit. I was assuming this was the case but when I first saw "master buss" I was thinking that is 'sorta baked" so had to ask. 
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Dynamic EQ or Multiband Compression
2015/05/01 22:51:55
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/05/01 23:53:13
You can alter things a little if the vocals are buried slightly by using stereo to M/S conversion. Push the mids up a little on the M signal then convert back to stereo. You will end up with a centre image that has a little more presence hence it may cut through better. (As long as there is not too much other stuff around near the centre that will clash with the vocal range) You can also use this approach to pull centre images down a little if they are poking through too much as well. Nothing beats getting it right in the mix. Dynamic EQ requires you to think about the threshold that has been used with the EQ. And that applies to either tracks, buses or a final mix. Then you need to think about what happens to the EQ ( boost or cut) when the signal is below and above the threshold. A lot to think about. With multiband compression the main thing is the bands will usually always reduce in gain once a threshold is reached. It is important to get bands all reducing gain by very similar amounts so the overall EQ stays intact. It can seriously be put out of whack if a multiband compressor is set badly. ie one band reducing way more than the others. With dynamic EQ the EQ changes can occur in a band too but they can boost as well as cut. Not to mention that the dynamic EQ effect can happen either under or over the threshold so it is more complex in a way. I find the better you are tracking and mixing the less you should need this. It is more about repairing than creating. Although it could be used to advantage in a mix. I prefer to automate EQ and volume changes instead. You have more precise control over that.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2015/05/02 00:01:41
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