Helpful ReplyAfter playing with Rapture Pro...

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gswitz
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2015/04/28 23:28:52 (permalink)

After playing with Rapture Pro...

I used my Roland GR20 Guitar Synth for midi input. Seemed too gentle to use my keyboard.
 
Rapture Pro seems much more robust than old Rapture.
 
Processor doesn't work nearly as hard, but all work still being done on a single processor.
 
The Synth did freeze one me once so far. When it froze,
  • Meters on the Synth Audio Output track remained frozen, but no sound
  • Meters on the midi input channel bounced happily.
  • resetting the Audio Engine didn't help.
  • Closing the project didn't help.
  • Closing and re-opening Sonar did help.
  • I have not been able to repeat it.
  • The problem was not caused by me playing hard and driving the processor up. Nothing much was happening. I was changing patches, I think, but not sure and can't repeat.
  • I can regularly Freeze Rapture. I tried hard and was not able to Freeze Rapture Pro by playing aggressively with lots of sustain.
I'm glad I bought the Synth. It's a good deal. And I've had a great time with it.
 
Red Herring
At one point, I was getting some clicks on the attack. At first, I thought that this might be b/c my latency was too low so I bumped it up and the clicks persisted. Turned out, I was clipping on the master bus. If it could happen to me it could happen to you. :-)
 
So, at the end of the evening, praise and respect to the Bakers. It's a nice job and I'm happy.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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    midiaddict
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 01:14:16 (permalink)
    Hello, Gswitz! Have you a problem with first and third pack of Rapture Pro when installing? Some programs are missed in each of them.
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    gswitz
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 07:18:17 (permalink)
    I can double check. I wasn't able to tell a problem last-night.
     
    What programs should I look for?
     
    Edit: While going through patches looking for missing items I had issues with Sonar Silent Treatment.
    The Rapture Pro: Dark Angelic 2 patch is not playable on my system. If I try to load the patch, I have to close and re-open Sonar.
     
    I added C:\Cakewalk Content to my Windows Defender Scanning Exclusions.
     
    List of problem patches for me:
    Dark Angelic 2
    Dramatic Resonance
    Lush Guitars F5
    Multipulse & Brass
    DK_BA_AcidMoog3 - This one works but clicks like it's clipping when I hold a chord. I couldn't discover why.
     
    post edited by gswitz - 2015/04/29 07:45:38

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 09:19:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/04/29 14:08:11
    Somebody wrote earlier that there were tremendous differences in volume between programs - I saw this as well..
    I'll summarise what I saw on the other thread (it was too long).
     
    1) No progress bar when files are being moved after extraction - could be a CCC issue perhaps.

    2) It's really hard to tell which bank has been selected "Rapture Pro", "Dimension Pro", "Expansion Pack", when they are selected it's just slightly brighter, but it really isn't at all obvious. I don't see any other indicators.

    3) Sadly when you make the window larger the UI does not expand with it, so we still have to cope with scrollbars (urgh!). It's obvious that the UI for patch browsing is based on the Kontakt interface, with Kontakt you can at least do that.

    4) If I search for a program, let's say "Atmosmere", and then I want to go patch browsing again, I have to delete what I typed in first. Then I have to click the mouse elsewhere. Really fiddly. There is no X button or something to quickly get rid of it. Is there a shortcut I'm missing?

    5) There really should be a file browser tab like in Kontakt, for the moment we just have a basic browser library.

    6) Bug - Gibson Les Paul Gold Top and Digital Sound Factory Symphonic are not loading samples (silent).
     
    7) Sample file management is basically still non existent. We are unable to manage file paths (hard to tell well the samples actually are), and there seems to be no settings area for file paths to point to.
     
    8) When saving or loading files it defaults to an irrelevant location (pity it can't be defined in the settings).
     
    9) Bug - Go to Z3TA+2, load up a sample and click on the silver keyboard below. Click the same note several time in quick succession - observe how responsive it is (works well). Do the same with Rap Pro - there seems to be something going on whereby it's not as punchy - everytime you stop playing with the mouse something is updating which delays the response of the next mouse click.
     
    10) Bug - When loading a program the info pane will show "Times loaded: 1". If you load another program and then go back to the same program it still says "Times loaded: 1". I would expect it to increment.
     
    11) Rap Pro does create log files but they've taken away the facility to access them via the Rap Pro menu.
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/04/29 10:08:33
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    midiaddict
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 10:25:58 (permalink)
    gswitz
    I can double check. I wasn't able to tell a problem last-night.
     
    What programs should I look for?
     
    Edit: While going through patches looking for missing items I had issues with Sonar Silent Treatment.
    The Rapture Pro: Dark Angelic 2 patch is not playable on my system. If I try to load the patch, I have to close and re-open Sonar.
     
    I added C:\Cakewalk Content to my Windows Defender Scanning Exclusions.
     
    List of problem patches for me:
    Dark Angelic 2
    Dramatic Resonance
    Lush Guitars F5
    Multipulse & Brass
    DK_BA_AcidMoog3 - This one works but clicks like it's clipping when I hold a chord. I couldn't discover why.
     


    Thank you for your reply. I mean when installing packs 1 and 3  error messages appeared. I noticed there were complaints about wrong names of source files. One of them was "90?s pianos instead of 90's pianos.  May it be of question mark? 
    #5
    Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 11:30:27 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    Somebody wrote earlier that there were tremendous differences in volume between programs - I saw this as well..
    I'll summarise what I saw on the other thread (it was too long).
     
    1) No progress bar when files are being moved after extraction - could be a CCC issue perhaps.
     
     
    Noted, will look into it. 
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    2) It's really hard to tell which bank has been selected "Rapture Pro", "Dimension Pro", "Expansion Pack", when they are selected it's just slightly brighter, but it really isn't at all obvious. I don't see any other indicators.
     
     
    Gotcha, I can see what you mean. From afar the default selected Rapture Pro category doesn't appear to be in a "selected state". I'll note this. 
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    3) Sadly when you make the window larger the UI does not expand with it, so we still have to cope with scrollbars (urgh!). It's obvious that the UI for patch browsing is based on the Kontakt interface, with Kontakt you can at least do that.
     
     
    It would be AWESOME if we had something like that implemented, but many of our plugins do not have this built into the design of their GUI. The original Rapture and Dimension Pro didn't either.
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    4) If I search for a program, let's say "Atmosmere", and then I want to go patch browsing again, I have to delete what I typed in first. Then I have to click the mouse elsewhere. Really fiddly. There is no X button or something to quickly get rid of it. Is there a shortcut I'm missing?

     
    Understood, noting for sure. 
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    5) There really should be a file browser tab like in Kontakt, for the moment we just have a basic browser library.

     
    Rapture Pro displays your entire C:\Cakewalk Content\Rapture Pro\Programs if that's your chosen directory. It doesn't require any special sauce to reload or refresh this - as it loads in real time. Not sure I see the benefit of a Browser within a Browser.
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    6) Bug - Gibson Les Paul Gold Top and Digital Sound Factory Symphonic are not loading samples (silent).


    We'll look into this for sure. These are not Rapture Pro libraries - but they should be compatible. 


    Doktor Avalanche
    7) Sample file management is basically still non existent. We are unable to manage file paths (hard to tell well the samples actually are), and there seems to be no settings area for file paths to point to.

     
    During install you can choose where to place your samples. Users have the ability to change everything except for the initial .prog files location.
     
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    8) When saving or loading files it defaults to an irrelevant location (pity it can't be defined in the settings).
     

     
    Looking into this now, is this true on Mac as well?
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    9) Bug - Go to Z3TA+2, load up a sample and click on the silver keyboard below. Click the same note several time in quick succession - observe how responsive it is (works well). Do the same with Rap Pro - there seems to be something going on whereby it's not as punchy - everytime you stop playing with the mouse something is updating which delays the response of the next mouse click.


    Noted, we'll look into this. 
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    10) Bug - When loading a program the info pane will show "Times loaded: 1". If you load another program and then go back to the same program it still says "Times loaded: 1". I would expect it to increment.

     
    Noted, look into this now. 
     
    Doktor Avalanche
    11) Rap Pro does create log files but they've taken away the facility to access them via the Rap Pro menu.



    Not sure I see the benefit in this other than just having the ability to do this. The log files are not important unless you're having difficulty with a specific program. 
     
    #6
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 12:36:53 (permalink)
    Hi Dan many thanks for your response...
     
    3) With the shed loads of samples you are supplying it's become essential in my opinion...!
     
    5) The reason we need a "browser within a browser" is when we play the samples we really need to know where they are (let's say we are trying to access the files that have been moved elsewhere, we want to know where it is expecting the samples) within it's environment... At the moment it's a guessing game. Also we might experiment with swapping files around etc. Think about what Kontakt supplies - I'm not asking for anything as extensive as that but basic functionality would be a start.

    7) Yes but we need to do this after install, that's why we need a settings area for file management. Let's say I bought a brand new USB drive, or my friend has come over and asked me to hook up with his stuff. Let's say I accidentally unplugged my USB drive - or a drive letter got changed for some reason - a simple tweak fixes it all.

    8) No idea about Mac - others can give feedback.


    11) It's just really useful to be able to access log files quickly and easily. Right now I am having difficulty with specific programs as in (6).


    The feedback you have provided is reason enough to still be a Cakewalk fan, many thanks...
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/04/29 12:44:16
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 12:47:04 (permalink)
    Here's another:
    (12) When pressing F5 to do a refresh there is no confirmation that it has done anything at all. Ideally it should show a log as to what has been imported.
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    Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 13:19:49 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    Here's another:
    (12) When pressing F5 to do a refresh there is no confirmation that it has done anything at all. Ideally it should show a log as to what has been imported.


    This isn't an issue Alex. F5 doesn't show any confirmation, because it does *nothing*. The library gets refreshed automatically.

    Best Regards,
    Seth
    #9
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 13:21:00 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    Here's another:
    (12) When pressing F5 to do a refresh there is no confirmation that it has done anything at all. Ideally it should show a log as to what has been imported.

     
    Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
    This isn't an issue Alex. F5 doesn't show any confirmation, because it does *nothing*. Library refreshes are done automatically on UI open. 



    Then you need to change the PDF manual as it states this. Thanks.
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    Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 13:22:12 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    Doktor Avalanche
    Here's another:
    (12) When pressing F5 to do a refresh there is no confirmation that it has done anything at all. Ideally it should show a log as to what has been imported.

     
    Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
    This isn't an issue Alex. F5 doesn't show any confirmation, because it does *nothing*. Library refreshes are done automatically on UI open. 



    Then you need to change the PDF manual as it states this. Thanks.




    Thanks Alex, I'll let documentation know. 

    Best Regards,
    Seth
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    lfm
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 13:28:23 (permalink)
    Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
    Doktor Avalanche
    3) Sadly when you make the window larger the UI does not expand with it, so we still have to cope with scrollbars (urgh!). It's obvious that the UI for patch browsing is based on the Kontakt interface, with Kontakt you can at least do that.
     
     
    It would be AWESOME if we had something like that implemented, but many of our plugins do not have this built into the design of their GUI. The original Rapture and Dimension Pro didn't either.
     

     
    Is there a standalone maybe?
    On that one could make full use of screen and have all elements be tweakable simultaneously, above and below each other.
     
    Select the envelope you are working on - and all 6 elements are shown.
     
    I tried many times to makes patches in dimension, but really get tired and give up - too cumbersome.
    Such a massive amount of possibilities there - and no play...
     
    #12
    Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 13:36:58 (permalink)
    lfm
    Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
    Doktor Avalanche
    3) Sadly when you make the window larger the UI does not expand with it, so we still have to cope with scrollbars (urgh!). It's obvious that the UI for patch browsing is based on the Kontakt interface, with Kontakt you can at least do that.
     
     
    It would be AWESOME if we had something like that implemented, but many of our plugins do not have this built into the design of their GUI. The original Rapture and Dimension Pro didn't either.
     

     
    Is there a standalone maybe?
    On that one could make full use of screen and have all elements be tweakable simultaneously, above and below each other.
     
    Select the envelope you are working on - and all 6 elements are shown.
     
    I tried many times to makes patches in dimension, but really get tired and give up - too cumbersome.
    Such a massive amount of possibilities there - and no play...
     




    Yes, there is definitely a standalone on Windows. This version is the exact same as the one you load in a host. Tweaking and making patches in Rapture Pro is much easier with the new interface in comparison to Dimension and Rapture. 
     
    #13
    TD75
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 14:40:49 (permalink)
    Hello,
     
    Like some others have commented, I, too, am experiencing some issues with the volume inconsistencies between some patches.  As I've been browsing through the program presets I have also noticed some not producing any sound (not sure if it's just on my system or if others are noticing it as well).  Some of the program patches that aren't working for me are as follows: under the Pattern Synths I've come across three so far - Chirpers, Bass Finale Seq JJ, and Beyond Seq JJ, and as mentioned earlier the Les Paul Gold Top presets.  Anyone else have luck with these in particular or any other patches not producing sound?

    Sonar Platinum, Windows 7 64-bit OS, Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU 2.93GHz, 8 GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, MCU Pro, Alesis Q49, Oxygen 25.
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    mgh
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 15:16:37 (permalink)
    not pulled the trigger yet on this but z3ta has always had awful volume differences between patches. it really makes A-B'ing a royal PITA so some progress on that would be helpful CW. 

    Memorare debut album 'Philistine' available now http://blackwoodproductio...philistine-digipack-cd
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 15:20:05 (permalink)
    Had a thought about (5) - 
     
    5) The reason we need a "browser within a browser" is when we play the samples we really need to know where they are (let's say we are trying to access the files that have been moved elsewhere, we want to know where it is expecting the samples) within it's environment... At the moment it's a guessing game. Also we might experiment with swapping files around etc. Think about what Kontakt supplies - I'm not asking for anything as extensive as that but basic functionality would be a start.
     
    Dan we need improvements with the media browser in Sonar. If you work on this you can use the same code for Rap Pro within reason. Kill two birds with one stone, saves developers time get the feature out to two subsets of customer. Win win... Two apps get improved rather than one. Also your future soft synths benefit... reusable code etc.. That's a good reason to triage this.
    #16
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 17:37:06 (permalink)
    Found a new issue
    (13) The executable installs with the VST2 file! - I keep exe's on C drive and plugins on D drive, this is the first plugin I've seen that behaves this way. I'm not 100% sure Rap Pro honours user defined file paths anywhere when requested please test!
    #17
    Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 17:50:40 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    Found a new issue
    (13) The executable installs with the VST2 file! - I keep exe's on C drive and plugins on D drive, this is the first plugin I've seen that behaves this way. I'm not 100% sure Rap Pro honours user defined file paths anywhere when requested please test!




    This is as intended.
     
    The Microhost needs to live next to the VST2 .dll. 

    Best Regards,
    Seth
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 18:50:39 (permalink)
    (13) - if this is intended it's NOT a good design to be totally honest. It didn't happen with Dim Pro or Rapture, I don't know of many other plugins that do this. You are taking away the flexibility, I certainly want to install EXE's away from Plugins.


    It should be easy to workaround, I suggest you make two copies of the DLL and allow us to install the EXE where we want away from the VST2 folder and throw that into your install routine (which never states what is happening with the EXE anyway). I've already hacked this in myself, it's not a good workaround though as I will have to remember to copy the EXE/DLL's across again and edit the registry each time there is an update.
     
    And discussed earlier the VST 3 also totally ignores the file path given in CCC, to workaround we move it and hack the registry entry to the right path. And I can't confirm but it seemed to ignore the VST2 file path I gave it as well..
     
    ...whole thing needs reviewing...
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    Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 19:31:28 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    (13) - if this is intended it's NOT a good design to be totally honest. It didn't happen with Dim Pro or Rapture, I don't know of many other plugins that do this. You are taking away the flexibility, I certainly want to install EXE's away from Plugins.


    It should be easy to workaround, I suggest you make two copies of the DLL and allow us to install the EXE where we want away from the VST2 folder and throw that into your install routine (which never states what is happening with the EXE anyway). I've already hacked this in myself, it's not a good workaround though as I will have to remember to copy the EXE/DLL's across again and edit the registry each time there is an update.
     
    And discussed earlier the VST 3 also totally ignores the file path given in CCC, to workaround we move it and hack the registry entry to the right path. And I can't confirm but it seemed to ignore the VST2 file path I gave it as well..
     
    ...whole thing needs reviewing...


    Alex, it did happen with Dimension Pro, Rapture 1.2.2, Z3ta+, and Z3ta+ 2. The micro hosts require that they be next to the DLL. We haven't taken away any flexibility in this regard.

    If you don't run Rapture Pro as a standalone instrument, you can delete the microhost exe.

    Best Regards,
    Seth
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/29 19:50:33 (permalink)
    I stand corrected - sorry. But let's put it this way, I don't have many plugins with .exe files symbolically linked to each other. 

    I'm still asking for the quote above it gives us more flexibility. As I suggested all you need to do is change the way your installer behaves just dupe the DLL with the exe and you are done. NI installers give you a choice of where you want the application (exe) path, and the VST file path for 32 bit and 64 bit - all separately. We get flexibility. NI installers upgrade in the right places as well.
     
    The tech should not dominate where the user wants his files, just use two identical DLL's and then we get the flexibility. You don't need to do anything more complicated than that.
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/04/29 20:08:07
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    lfm
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/30 06:36:35 (permalink)
    Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
    Yes, there is definitely a standalone on Windows. This version is the exact same as the one you load in a host. Tweaking and making patches in Rapture Pro is much easier with the new interface in comparison to Dimension and Rapture. 

    Thanks.
     
    Looking at some tuts - it seems focus in on flexibility with effect chains etc.
    Nothing improved regarding working with envelopes as far as I could see.
     
    I think looking at extending standalone with views for patch creations might be a good idea.
    A view with a synced timebase on envelopes(maybe as an option) and all envelopes above each other.
    A more creative interface.
    How oscillators interact are among the more important parts, in my view. Just layering sounds is boring.
    #22
    pwalpwal
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/30 06:52:08 (permalink)
    Doktor AvalancheI don't know of many other plugins that do this.

    the one that springs to my mind is savihost, but that's a free microhost rather than plugin http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm



    just a sec

    #23
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/30 07:40:15 (permalink)
    Yes we understand the tech - it's a wrapper. But that does not make it impossible to move the exe somewhere else with a dupe DLL so it's more convenient for the user when placing his/her files, I don't think this is a big deal ask.
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/04/30 07:46:22
    #24
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/30 13:17:13 (permalink)
    (14) If there is an error we should not get the silent treatment. Suppressing the error message and just pasting it into the logs is a bad move, it's nice to have it logged however. For instance, I don't know how some samples are supposed to sound like, if there's a FLAC file missing how am I supposed to know without looking at the log file religiously? Maybe in some instances it is a good idea to suppress in the UI (maybe it will get annoying for some) in which case there should be an option in settings, but it should not be the default.
    #25
    gmetcalfe
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/04/30 14:38:41 (permalink)
    Also experiencing some patches not having audio. As noted above, I am having issues with some of the identical patches (although not all. I noticed that some folks were talking about 
     
    It looks like it has installed Expansions 1 & 2 from the original Rapture into the Rapture Classic Sound Bank. I have noticed a number of sonic differences between the versions running in Rapture vs Rapture Pro - for instance FG Amazon Rain in Rapture Pro is actually missing the audio multisample file "Modular Pad" that is supposed to be in element one.
     
    Should I re-run the installers or are these known issues that some multipsamples are missing. The osther question I would ask in the regard ... is there a way I can import my Muzeum program files from Rapture to Rapture Pro.
     
    I'm hoping you got these issues resolved in a "dot" release so I can free up some HD space from having to maintain my legacy versions of Rapture and Dimensions as well as Rapture Pro.
    #26
    gswitz
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    Re: After playing with Rapture Pro... 2015/05/01 20:35:23 (permalink)
    Update:
     
    After uninstalling and re-installing Rapture Pro following Josh's instructions from support (IM me your email if you want me to forward them to you), Rapture Pro no longer freezes and forces me to restart Sonar.
     
    On the other hand, I'm having the same experience as most others that lots of patches will not play.
    post edited by gswitz - 2015/05/02 12:18:21

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #27
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