Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar?

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johnlewisgrant
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2015/02/07 10:32:04 (permalink)

Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar?

Can anyone recommend a notebook or, if not that, a laptop that will run Sonar and, say, one vst piano?
 
I would ONLY use the notebook/laptop for listening to and editing midi files, running a typical vst piano and Kontakt 5 inside Sonar.  
 
I won't be attempting any LIVE playing: so a super fast external sound card wouldn't be required.    Still, I don't want any pops, clicks, or dropouts, while listening.  Latency is just fine, but the result has to be clean!
 
I have 2 smaller capacity first gen ssd cards in my pc, 128 each.  They work great.  I'm guessing the best notebooks come with much bigger ssd cards?
 
thanks for any suggestions,
 
JG
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    gswitz
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/07 10:42:11 (permalink)
    Studio cat. See my signature.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #2
    johnlewisgrant
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/07 13:43:50 (permalink)
    I'm looking.
    #3
    johnlewisgrant
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 08:21:49 (permalink)
     
    OK    very helpful... but a question:  Do these high end laptops come with ASIO sound cards?   If not, what is the protocol and is the onboard adequate to shut out all hints of dropouts.   Again, not in the context of live performance; so we can assume latency is not an issue.  
     
     
    #4
    gswitz
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 09:46:29 (permalink)
    Yes if you order one. They are optional. I recommend the RME UCX. They do not come with interfaces unless you request it.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #5
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 10:06:36 (permalink)
    If all you need to do is listen and you don't care about latency at all, most likely using the built in card with MME drivers will be fine. I occasionally use mine that way with headphones to review or edit. On light projects it shouldn't be an issue.

    I would at least try it out before spending hundreds on an RME card.
    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 10:16:27 (permalink)
    This will get moved to computers I guess. 
    Laptops are tricky as no 2 are alike. Even with the brands. One Lenovo will run Sonar and the other one will have huge DPCLAT latency. 
    My self I will be asking the sales person to run Latency Mon before I buy anything. 
     
     

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #7
    johnlewisgrant
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 11:15:50 (permalink)
    Oh... may be I should repost under the right forum.  Didn't realize ....   Interesting that mme efficiency varies between seemingly very similar units (similar on specs, that is)!
     
    My old M-Audio Fast Trak Ultra isn't that big.  I suppose I could haul it around, when and if necessary, using it in conjunction with the laptop/notebook.   Arguably, perhaps ANY laptop with usb 3, decent mem, and at least 2 ssd drives will be just fine where you're prepared to use FTU or some other ASIO audio card?
     
     
    #8
    scook
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 11:18:20 (permalink)
    Please don't cross post. I can move this one for you.
    #9
    gswitz
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 13:25:26 (permalink)
    DPC Latency issues usually come down to drivers. You can adjust drivers to get the right ones. Two PCs running the same drivers in the same way where all else is equal should perform equally. If one PC is using a Microsoft Generic Mouse Driver while the other has a manufacturer specific driver, there may be a noticeable difference.
     
    In general audio interfaces are usually separate from the computer. It makes shielding and other complexities around pre-amps and signal chain much simpler. My audio interface gets lugged around with me when I go.
     
    Geoff

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #10
    wruess
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 14:59:35 (permalink)
    Another 2 cents worth:  Buy a laptop that is optimized for audio.  I got one from ADK computers (adkproaudio.com), but there are others.
    #11
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 15:53:33 (permalink)
    USB 3 isn't entirely reliable for USB 2 audio devices. It would be wise to have at least one USB 2 port.

    Other than that, the discussion is focussed a lot on latency and from what I gathered before, you don't care about that. Which means you'll be able to get away with a LOT more. Add to that that you will be basically using one piano based off samples on an SSD and I really don't think you need anything particularly top of the line, let alone an expensive audio interface. That, of course, remains an option for later. But anything i5 or better should be ok.

    Of course, if you're planning to expand your use of the laptop later, of course it makes sense to dig in and get an optimized-for-audio machine.
    #12
    johnlewisgrant
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 17:55:37 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander comments hit the nail for me: basically I have a beast pc at home which has been completely reliable for live playing.  But when I'm on holiday or just out of town, I'd like to be able to edit music.  Not to play it in, just to listen to stuff I've already done via Sonar Kontakt and various sampled pianos, and tweek it.  So I just need an accurate reproduction of what I've done, so I can mess with the audio or midi file, etc.
     
    This issue has to have been raised before.  I should do a more thorough search, may be.
     
     
    #13
    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/08 18:42:08 (permalink)
    I've just upgraded from HP Envy and although a lot of people complain about HP, it did the job, was reasonable and I never had any compatibility issues.  I'm now experimenting with a Toshiba Satellite (I know) which is a desktop replacement, 16 gig of ram 4th gen Haswell i7...so far and touchwood it seems to be a beast.
     
    It's future proof too, it can beam out the monitor to a DLNA networked TV (I think this is how it works)...haven't used it but I've used mirror cast before.  It can hook into a 4K monitor via the HDMI port, it can also hook into a 3d TV via HDMI port and show 3D movies.  The screen is a touchscreen too, although it isn't the best LCD panel...I'm learning the difference between IPS and TL (I think) at the moment but it's no biggy because of the extension options.  IPS is only really for hard core video, photography and gaming...although I will get one of these panels in the future.  Oh it's HD 1080 and all that jazz.
     
    I'm experimenting with an external USB 3 SSD drive as my recording drive too, and this is interesting.  I haven't tested it with hard-core video editing yet, but I ran an old project last night only 18 tracks but very cut-up...lots of edits and all that jazz, and it swam...I transferred two gig onto it in under a minute and a half, I'm going to run some more tests over the coming days but I am very confident that we have entered a new era in regards to hard drives.  For the record I'm using a Samsung SSD 850-128gig Pro, with a Vantec Nexstar case which says it's specifically designed for SSD's and 6GB SATA III.  Because it did not come with a specific cable, I could not use the magician software which came with hard drive-which apparently would boost the speed even higher but when I ran a speed test...it didn't matter, the read and write speed was about 470MB per sec and the drive is guaranteed for 10 years. Apparently it can handle 40 gig's of transfer a day for 10 years.
    http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/ssd850pro/overview.html
     
    Ben

    Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
    http://1331.space/
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    #14
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 03:09:09 (permalink)
    If ultimate mobility is attractive to you, a guy I know is very happy with a Microsoft Surface Pro 3.
    #15
    johnlewisgrant
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 08:31:43 (permalink)
     
    Thanks.   These are really great suggestions.  I've got a little Scarlet red box lying around.  I'll probably save a little by mating that to one of the above.   
     
    Are chipsets an issue?    Anything I should avoid?
    #16
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 11:10:38 (permalink)
    Here's a thread with some people who are using a Surface Pro 2 and 3;
    forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3169400

    As for chipsets, I think an important thing is having a dedicated USB2 port as USB3 sometimes gives problems.

    Oh and try to stay away from stuff that promises extreme power saving.
    #17
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 11:34:28 (permalink)
    I wasn't talking about Round trip latency, Agreed that is not an issue unless your using the laptop for guitar effects or synths live. I was talking DPCL latency which if you don't already know what that is you might need to look into it. 
     
    DPCL is what causes CPU processing spikes that will interfere with your DAW's performance. Things like Battery Management and WiFi as examples of background processes that are notorious culprits. But there are many other processes and some cannot be shut down on certain models of laptops because of the bios. This is why it can be a 10 to 1 crap shoot. 
     
    My son bought a $1,500 Dell laptop for audio. It was a dud. He even tried to get his money back but Dell said it is not broken. DPCL spikes every 30 second way up there in the red means nothing to computer geeks. 
     
    So he went down to Wal Mart and bought a $500 Acer which he has been using for 5 years now. He upgraded the Hard Drive and the RAM. 
     
    My Laptop is a 2004 Toshiba P4 1.5 Gigs of RAM. 250 gig 7200 RPM HD. Xp 32bit.  I can record a whole band with it into Sonar 8.5  running my Tascam us1641 in asio mode. In MME mode I use the on board sound and I can edit and mess around with midi files. Only the TTS-1 is stable however. Dim Pro will kill it. Worst is screen refresh is deadly slow. 
    Not trusting the above machine for a paid recording session, one day I borrowed my wife's office Lenovo T450. i5, 4 gigs RAM, 7200 RPM drive.  I was not allowed to mess with it. I installed X3 and using the Tascam again it worked flawlessly recording 8 tracks of a live choir performance. Without optimizing it had DPCL under 75 ms flat and steady. I'm waiting for her boss to upgrade her and I want that one! 
     
    So bottom line, don't worry about the brand or CPU. Worry about the bios and DPCL first. 
    Get a 240Gig SSD  OS drive. or at least a 7200 RPM. that's paramount for audio. Why external? that's messy? 
    A lot of people pull the DVD drive and add an extra 500 Gig or more 7200 drive. 
    You can put the DVD drive in an  external encloser for the rare time they are needed these days. 
    Get at least 8 Gigs of RAM 
     
    I use all USB 3.0 for my studio gear without problems.  Scarlett interfaces are verified to work with USB 3.0
     I only use USB 2 form my mouse. 
     
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/02/09 12:07:32

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #18
    johnlewisgrant
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 11:44:53 (permalink)
    Dell is out... I figured as much.  
    #19
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 11:50:54 (permalink)
    Good point, CM. I've never had this happen with any of my laptops, but I do always remove any bloatware and manually manage power profiles and drivers.

    I would consider that Dell story completely unacceptable by the way. A spike every 30 seconds is significant not just for audio production but also video stuff and gaming. Basically all it doesn't matter for is office work and browsing.
    #20
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 12:12:03 (permalink)
    Well I'm not sure it was every 30 seconds, but it was bad enough to make the machine useless for the one reason he bought it. And he really did narrow it down to that it was in the BIOS. 
    He even tried installing OSX and Linux. Same results. So it was not Windows issue. 
    And my son is way up there with computer tech stuff. He has built dozens of great systems and worked in a tech shop for a while. He took a bunch of tech courses at College. He has a degree in soldering! He's now an electrician working in Marine Instrumentation and systems on our famous Canadian Submarines that caught on fire after we bought them from the Brits. 
     
    He gave the Dell to his daughter (my granddaughter)  and it's still running fine for her. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #21
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/02/09 12:53:39 (permalink)
    I'm not doubting your son, I'm just shocked that Dell wouldn't settle that satisfactorily. Not even a BIOS update or anything!
    #22
    BMOG
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/03/24 17:39:35 (permalink)
    I have a i5 dual core 2.30Ghz 4GB Ram not DDR running Windows 7 Is that enough muscle to run Platinum, kontact 5?  I want to be able to travel and record vocals and bring it back and dump into my main system?  If that is not enough what do you suggest I know the i7 would be ideal but trying not to spend that $$$ unless I absolutely have to
    #23
    dwardzala
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/03/25 08:29:18 (permalink)
    The processor won't be the issue - memory might be on that system.  If you can get it up to 8G, you will have better performance.

    Dave
    Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
    MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller
    Win10 x64 Home
    Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d)
     
    Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD)
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    Sonar 2016.10 Platinum
     
    Check out my original music:
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    #24
    TerraSin
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/03/26 12:04:04 (permalink)
    If I had to buy a laptop, I'd be looking at a Lenovo or ADK. The one saving grace for companies like ADK is that they optimize the whole computer, BIOS and OS, for audio work so as soon as it's out of the box, it's ready to go. You pay for that service though so if you know about computers enough to feel confident in doing the modifications yourself, then you can go with something else.
    #25
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/03/27 16:49:18 (permalink)
    If you go with a laptop... performance wise you'll do best with a custom built laptop built around a Clevo shell.
    Another advantage with a custom built (Clevo shell) laptop is that the BIOS can be customized... to expose certain parameters that are necessary to achieve super low/consistent DPC Latency.
    Low/consistent DPC Latency is necessary to effectively work at low audio latency.
    Off-the-shelf laptops don't expose these parameters to the end-user.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #26
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/03/28 04:41:05 (permalink)
    WiFi can certainly be an issue, but if a laptop happens to have WiFi that causes issues, you can do what many folks do and simply turn it off or disable it just prior to launching Sonar, then turn it back on or enable it after finishing the Sonar session.
     
    I can confirm that some battery management services can sometimes cause DPC latency spikes.
     
    I used a Dell laptop for 3 years of live performances twice a week and at least one practice a week on top of that, and other than disabling both battery management and WiFi services ahead of launching Sonar, it worked like a champ running Sonar.
     
    +1 on 8GB or better for memory, +1 on USB 2, +1 on avoiding 'green' drives, and +1 on having capacity for or even having a 2nd disk drive.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #27
    BMOG
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/04/30 23:02:25 (permalink)
    wruess
    Another 2 cents worth:  Buy a laptop that is optimized for audio.  I got one from ADK computers (adkproaudio.com), but there are others.


    I am waiting to talk to ADK tomorrow but this laptop has some nice features your thoughts?  http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9673531&CatId=4935
    #28
    TerraSin
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    Re: Recommendations for a notebook or laptop to run Sonar? 2015/05/03 16:45:37 (permalink)
    Not terrible. Little overkill on the videocard which will likely be pretty loud.
    #29
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