I need brush drums.

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davdud101
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2015/05/10 10:15:56 (permalink)

I need brush drums.

I've got a Christmas jazz combo track I'm working on for my church and I need to somehow get brush drums in there.
Is there anyway I could mix, maybe, the TTS1 brush kit patch with some sort of recorded sfx to get the desired sound? Does anyone know any convincing samples I could use?
 
I don't really know what to do in this case- I really need to simulate a REAL kit. I mean of course, I have no upright bassist or decent piano player, so I'm sort of left to dry on my own to get this track done, and I want it to sound authentic!

 
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    PeteL
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/10 11:59:29 (permalink)
    XLN has a nice jazz brush kit and brush MIDIPak available for Addictive Drums 2.
    #2
    Beepster
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/10 12:57:46 (permalink)
    Ya... you could upgrade to Sonar Studio and snag the AD2 Jazz Brushes ADpak as one of your freebies. I say studio because it's a little less costly. If you really need this type of stuff then the upgrade price is only a little more than what you would pay for the AD2 upgrade and adpaks anyway and you would get the new Sonar.
     
    I may be worng though. However you already own AD with your X3 purchase so you could cruise over to XLN's site and see what it would cost to upgrade to AD2 with the Jazz Brush adpak.
     
    Unfortunately this really is the type of thing you are going to need quality samples for if you want realism. I have not listened to the TTS brushed samples you are referring to but, as good as TTS is, they are going to be a FAR cry from the XLN samples.
     
    If you happen to own BFD you could look around at Platinum Samples offerings as well. They may have a nice expansion for jazz brushes on sale.
     
    However if you wanted to "fake" it try messing with whatever drum samplers you have. Turn down the "top" skin and focus on the "bottom" skin of the snare. For the other kit pieces you could try dulling the transient attacks to dull the hits which might mimic a more brushed sound. You'll probably want to do some high self EQ on that too so it doesn't sound too flat after that. Brush hits are kind of bright.
     
    You are NOT going to be able to easy reproduce "stirring the pot" type stuff (which the AD2 jazz pak allows for which is cool) but you may be able to get it sounding close.
     
    IDK... better off using proper samples though. There's a reason people pay for those packs. It's amazing that type of stuff can even be sampled and resequenced. I've played brushed snare stuff for country/folk bands and have been backed by jazz guys with brushes. It's so delicate and smooth it really does not seem like the type of thing you could just take a sample of and play back... but somehow these software companies make it happen.
     
    The programming has a LOT to do with it too so you'll want the Jazz Brush MIDI pak as well (or similar programs for other sequencers). There are special instructions to recreate a lot of stuff that simple triggers can't/won't do... like "stirring the pot".
     
     
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    Beepster
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/10 12:59:34 (permalink)
    Also... I think Bapu might be able to give you some insight on how Band In a Box does this stuff. I seem to recall hearing some decent brush work in some of his BIAB backed creations.
     
    I could also be insane but whatevs.
     
    #4
    bitflipper
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/10 15:14:45 (permalink)
    Waves Factory has a brush kit that's cheap enough ($11) to take a chance on. I don't think it's particularly fancy, but it sounds pretty organic in the demos.
     
    But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the TTS-1. Put some convincing room verb on it and it's not bad. Maybe substitute the kick for something jazzier-sounding. 


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    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/10 15:29:27 (permalink)
    I just checked back at the Songs forum where yorolpal had posted a nice tune with brushed drums that sounded pretty good and I'd asked him what he used for drums. He replied that it was the NY brush kit for Superior Drummer.
     
    I just wish those SDX add-ons weren't 180 bucks a pop! I've had my eye on the Roots brushes, rods and mallets expansion pack for quite a while.


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    #6
    Kamikaze
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/11 03:29:52 (permalink)
    Isn't there a brush kit in Session Drummer. I don't think it has brushed cymbals though, just the snare an toms.
    there is an expansion pack for it though
    https://shop.cakewalk.com...ncy.USD/?id=45V7VpjRPa

     
    #7
    Mesh
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/11 13:33:35 (permalink)
    PeteL
    XLN has a nice jazz brush kit and brush MIDIPak available for Addictive Drums 2.

    +1
    Very nice brush kit indeed.

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    Kamikaze
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/11 23:55:49 (permalink)
    On the XLN site, there is a demo of the brush kit for a modern folk track instead of Jazz. This was a good demonstration that it wasn't just for Jazz. I wish at the time when they were in that room all set up they had just thought 'Hey, let's grab that other snare over their and make an additional KitPiece they can purchase while we are at it'

     
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    Mesh
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/12 09:56:53 (permalink)
    Kamikaze
    On the XLN site, there is a demo of the brush kit for a modern folk track instead of Jazz. This was a good demonstration that it wasn't just for Jazz. I wish at the time when they were in that room all set up they had just thought 'Hey, let's grab that other snare over their and make an additional KitPiece they can purchase while we are at it'


    On the kit page (in AD2), you can easily swap out the snare with any one of their other available snares/kits......or were you thinking of a specific jazz kit snare?

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    #10
    Kamikaze
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/12 12:09:01 (permalink)
    But they aren't played with brushes, but sticks!

     
    #11
    pwalpwal
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/12 12:10:21 (permalink)
    @op, if you have kontakt 3.5+ then wavesfactory have a nice instrument: http://wavesfactory.com/brush-drums.php

    just a sec

    #12
    Mesh
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/12 13:27:48 (permalink)
    Kamikaze
    But they aren't played with brushes, but sticks!


    Aaaahhh.....I see said the blind man.

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    mudgel
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    Re: I need brush drums. 2015/05/13 04:48:08 (permalink)
    Jamstix also has a brush pak.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    davdud101
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    Good trumpet SoundFonts? 2015/05/15 10:05:39 (permalink)
    Thanks for all of the suggestions, everyone! 
    I actually DON'T have AD, it didn't come with X3 Studio. I'm working with the SessionDrummer brush kit, which is pretty nice, and I think the biggest thing I need (besides a real drummer, haha) is the sound of actually brushing across the head. I might mix kits with a soundfont or something. I'll be on the lookout for that.
     
    ___
     
    Since I'd rather not start a new thread, I'll do this here... does anyone know of a good, multi-sample trumpet SondFont? I'm orchestrating a big band tune and the SF2's I have are just too powerful/bright and don't have any change in intensity (sample) with a change in MIDI velocity. Any help here?

     
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Good trumpet SoundFonts? 2015/05/15 10:32:29 (permalink)
    So far all samples of brushes I found are hits. The classic drag and snap is a hard thing to sample because it is tempo related sort of. The TTS-1 is fine as a hit , same with the brush kit in SD 3. But the few drag across the head sounds I've found sounded more like a jar full of sand being tipped. 
    I gave up looking and just recorded a real snare and brush, you don't have to be a drummer to do this, but you do need the snare and brushes. Actually come to think of it, all you need it the brushes and the correct surface to use like a cardboard box. 
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/05/15 10:39:39

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    Beepster
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    Re: Good trumpet SoundFonts? 2015/05/15 11:24:56 (permalink)
    davdud101 I'm working with the SessionDrummer brush kit, which is pretty nice, and I think the biggest thing I need (besides a real drummer, haha) is the sound of actually brushing across the head.
     



    That's pretty much what the "stirring the pot/soup" term means. The drummer uses one brush to do a circular sweep on the snare and will usually tap a beat with the other brush/hand.
     
    There are of course variations on this (like instead of a circle you just drag from the middle of the snare outward or vice versa). Thing is the only drum sampler I know of that does this is Addictive Drums with the Jazz Brushes adpak. Granted I am not familiar with eveything out there so perhaps there are specialty packs for other samplers.
     
    The problem is that the "sweeping/stirring" action is very difficult to make work with MIDI and samples. AD uses some weird programming to make it happen (which is why you need the MIDIPak and the sample ADpak... they work in conjunction).
     
    That said if all you want is that sweeping sound set to specific simple rhythms (like 4/4 or whatever) you could probably find some looped samples to just drag right into the clips pane in Sonar.
     
    Also as Cactus pointed out you can recreate/record that sound very easily (if you have reasonably steady hands and good sense of timing). Good brushes are kind of pricey (like maybe $40 for a semi decent pair) but are cheaper than a new sampler and fancy sample paks that you have to learn how to program, etc.
     
    Of course then you need to actually record it which means a decent mic that can handle higher mid/hi freqs well. A snare is also a massive bonus (and being able to mic the top and bottom so you get the brush and the wire rattle which makes for the best brushed sanre sound). But as Cactus also pointed out you can get a believable sound just on a carboard box. Street performers do this all the time and it sounds pretty cool. The size of the box affects the depth of the sound as does the grain of the corrugation (not sure if that's actually a word... lol). You'll probably want brown carboard (scratchier) as opposed to anything glossy but glossy could garner a snappier sound.
     
    Meh... good luck. Brushes are fun and pretty easy to play and easy to slide into a mix.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Good trumpet SoundFonts? 2015/05/15 11:24:56 (permalink)
    Dupe... WTF? Been gettign mroe dupes lately. Annoying...
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    Beepster
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    Re: Good trumpet SoundFonts? 2015/05/15 11:28:06 (permalink)
    BTW... if you do have an actual snare and want to record your brushwork SM57's are a pretty solid choice for micing both the top and bottom. No fuss no muss.
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    mudgel
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    Re: Good trumpet SoundFonts? 2015/05/19 01:58:25 (permalink)
    As mentioned earlier Superior Drummer 2 has a whole brush kit but it's a good bit of money. The sample quality and midi loops are excellent.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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