orangesporanges
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Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
Anyone using one of these systems? I've been thinking about taking the plunge, but I don't know much about what capacity each SHARC chip can handle. Obviously the more the better, but the price curve is pretty steep. Just wondering if anyone else is using this system and how many plugs each card can handle.(Oh, and if you like it too)
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wst3
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/05/19 15:07:17
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I've been a fan since they were sold by Mackie as the UAD-1. Currently I use a pair of UAD2/Solo cards, but I'm straining them. Which means I need to decide on the card vs Apollo... not as obvious a choice as one might wish! There are a handful of UA plugins that simply have no rivals - at least to my ears... The first time I heard the dBX 160 plugin I was transported back to the late 1970s, when those goofy things were ubiquitous in smaller studios. The plugin sounds exactly like I remember them - which is even better than sounding exactly like one. The Ocean Way rooms can change the complexion of a track or a mix in magical ways - although figuring out how to use it well can be a bit challenging. The Plate 140 is simply amazing... best plate emulation I've heard, and I used to use real plates. The Studer and Ampex tape plug-ins are subtle, but I really like whatever it is they do. I probably prefer the Studer, but it's close. The Cooper Time Cube is one of my secret weapons (along with the Plate 140 and the Maag EQ). So forget I said that. I used to think that the 1176 emulation was awesome, then they revisited it, and since the new one can't be more awesome I'll just call the original great and the new one awesome. There is not one plug-in I've tried that I did not like - although I do not own all of them - that would get quite expensive. And there is a chart that estimates the number of instances for any given plug-in on specific hardware. In my experience it is accurate, if not a tad conservative. That will give you a pretty good idea of what each device can do... Be wary - you can end up spending quite a bit on plug-ins once you purchase the cards!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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orangesporanges
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/05/19 17:17:38
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Thanks Bill,
I was looking on the conservative side of the spectrum, a duo or solo PCIe, they come with the "analog classics" bundle which is a decent mix of 4-5 plugs a reverb , pultec eq , teletronix comp etc. Not sure if I'm taking the plunge yet, just testing the water. I have to admit, I like the idea that their claim to fame is their attention to the authenticity of the originals, and the fact that they work with the actual companies' blessings. The fact that they are pretty much invisible to the CPU is nice, even though I have a fast machine. (never thought I'd ever have to give THAT a thought again, and yet , here we are).
While I have your attention, are there any "traditional" native plugs that you feel can hang with these big boys? There are a jillion "me too" companies that claim to have the "legendary vibe" of classic gear, (Including Cakewalk)
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wst3
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/05/19 19:02:01
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A solo or duo is a good way to get started - not like you need to ditch it later, but nice that you can pretty much get your investment back if you upgrade and don't want the extra card. And the bundle that comes with the card is good example of what you can do!
Off-loading the processing is less of an issue than it was when I bought my first UAD1, but it is nice. I have an i7-4790 based machine, and I have to work very hard to bring it to its knees... so for me it is more about the plugins.
There are native plugins that do a great job. I'd suggest the Gold Bundle from Waves as an excellent collection that covers a LOT of territory. For the most part I use the C family compressors when I don't care so much about vintage vibe, and do care about precision and flexibility. Same goes for the Q equalizers.
Their sound design tools are as good as it gets, and while I don't think that their vintage plugins are as "exact" as the UA line, I like them. To me they are another take on old hardware, more idealized than even UA (and lets face it, no two 1176s sound the same to start, so they had to pick one to model<G>!)
There are lots of great native plugins... I still use all the PSP delays, several from Voxengo, a couple from FabFilter, and so on. I also use the plugs that come with Sonar.
I have tried to thin the herd many times, and each time there are some that never make it back, but with so much variety it seems silly not to use them. But if I had to drop one line or another UA would be the last to go.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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mudgel
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/05/20 02:33:56
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I had a quad card for about a year or so but got rid of it recently. Just too expensive to keep up with and get the plugins I wanted and to be honest, not any better than many of the plugins I e already had. Especially Waves and I have the Mercury bundle so don't need much more. Though I have tons more quality plugins.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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wst3
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/05/20 12:16:18
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mudgel
<snippity> not any better than many of the plugins I e already had. Especially Waves and I have the Mercury bundle so don't need much more. Though I have tons more quality plugins.
It is a matter of personal taste, of course, but I'm curious. I stopped with Waves Gold, although I have tried some of their emulation plug-ins. For me they just didn't behave the way that the UA plug-ins do, and that is key for me. Not only must they sound great, but I need them to react to audio the way that the hardware (that I used) reacts. If that makes sense... So if I could ask - can you tell me what plugins (from any vendor) took the place of the UA stuff? I like UA, but hey, if I can find an all native solution that's pretty cool too! Thanks!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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orangesporanges
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/05/20 12:32:43
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Great thread! This is going exactly where I wanted it to. UA vs. other HIGH quality plugins. I am going to have to look at the Waves stuff as well. I have also heard good things about the Fab Filter stuff. It's possible that a duo and the Classic Bundle + one of the Waves collections is where I'm leaning. I recently resurrected my vinyl library, and I can't believe some of the cool organic production effects they were able to achieve back in the day. Big round "chewy" bass drums , great echoes, etc. compression that compliments vocals and doesn't sound like your singing through a pillow. Not to mention that x factor. The "I'm not sure what it is I'm hearing, but I like it."
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mudgel
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/02 12:34:08
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wst3
mudgel
<snippity> not any better than many of the plugins I e already had. Especially Waves and I have the Mercury bundle so don't need much more. Though I have tons more quality plugins.
It is a matter of personal taste, of course, but I'm curious. I stopped with Waves Gold, although I have tried some of their emulation plug-ins. For me they just didn't behave the way that the UA plug-ins do, and that is key for me. Not only must they sound great, but I need them to react to audio the way that the hardware (that I used) reacts.
If that makes sense...
So if I could ask - can you tell me what plugins (from any vendor) took the place of the UA stuff? I like UA, but hey, if I can find an all native solution that's pretty cool too!
Thanks!
You have me at a disadvantage, see. I didn't ever get to use the hardware. It means that I have only heard the hardware in demo files compared to demos files of the software. I couldn't hear the differences and when asked to pick what I thought maybe had that analog edge I couldn't pick the hardware with any certainty. Music history tells me what devices were used on what recordings but while my ear can distinguish between sounds I wouldn't have a clue which was the original hardware or the software. Still I got a Quad 2 card (mostly due to peer pressure) and after trying it with about a dozen of the base plugins for a year, It became clear to me that my first impressions had been right for me so I sold it to go software only. Apart from the occasional external mic pre and fx sends to vocalists I'm totally in the box (ITB). I already had a few Waves plugins and around this time a mixing job came up (I'm retired but take the odd job) where the client had some peculiar requirements. I was keen to do this particular job so I decided to buy Waves Mercury and SSL 4000 which fortunately was at a super special price. I'm very happy with the sound I can get and I have every base covered. The thing is that the original hardware is what has given us the paradigm for how these devices look and operate. When software emulates the look of the hardware it's hard not to imagine sitting there infront of the actual device as you manipulate the controls. You can start to believe what you're hearing is also as true to life as the look. I try not to look at the GUI other than to grab the knob, slider or switch while I'm using a plugin but listen for the changes, desired or not. Someone asked what other software is available esp emulations. Both Native Instruments and IKMultimedia have plugins that emulate the classics. Individually they're quite pricey but you can often get them in group buys to bring the price down. The NI stuff is all in the Komplete bundles so that makes it more for your money. There is a seemingly endless list of vendors who create quality plugins that emulate some hardware from the past. Many more that don't try to emulate but present their own vision with sometimes quirky GUIs others with a staid appearance and everything in between. Even iZotope's oZone 6 has presets named after hardware like the LA2A. Ozone is hardly considered a plugin that emulates hardware nonetheless it is possible to create what someone though was a distinguishable sound using its myriad settings. It goes to show that we don't need a GUI for anything more than providing the controls required to manipulate the software's features. Of course when the things we play with are visually pleasant that can hardly be seen as negative. However, once our eyes are targeted by a clever GUI that appeals to us, our ears can be deceived. Best not to worry about what can and can't be emulated. Just listen. If a plugin can create the sound you're after, that's what's important.
post edited by mudgel - 2015/06/02 12:42:29
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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wst3
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/02 13:15:43
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Hi Mike,
I'm not sure using the old hardware is an advantage<G>... one thing a lot of folks overlook (whether they used the old hardware or not) is that even the old hardware doesn't always sound like the old hardware!
For me that's not really the point though. What I like about the UA emulations, and what I don't find as convincing with other emulations (no, haven't tried them all) is how they react to the music. Unfortunately this turns out to be very difficult to explain in words, or even with examples, though I continue to try.
Take the 1176, a compressor that uses a FET as the variable gain element. That architecture certainly had a signature sound! But that wasn't the thing I noticed first.
The 1176 has a fixed threshold, and variable input and output levels. One of the tricks I learned early on was how to manipulate those two controls to get a wide variety of "sounds" with the same basic amount of level control. And one of the ways one might do that is to change the level feeding the device, instead of changing the input level on the device. And the 1176s that I used generally behaved the same way when I did that. The UA emulation was the first software version that gave me that same feel.
I've had similar reactions to many of their plug-ins. The dBX 160 emulation literally transported me back in time, it behaved exactly as I remember. I haven't used one in a very long time, so I won't swear that the emulation is perfect, not even sure which of the various 160s I used over the years I'd try to use as a yardstick. But what I do know is that when I feed that little compressor a drum kit it reacts in a certain way that absolutely reminds me of the hardware. I _think_ the resulting sound is pretty darned close too - but what I really enjoy is spinning the knob and knowing roughly how it will behave. Saves time, if nothing else.
I don't know if that makes sense or not.
And I'm certainly not going to suggest that anyone get a UA card because their emulations are so cool.
I've said it many time, but I'll repeat myself - you have to use the tools that get you to the sonic/musical result you are trying to reach. There is no one set of tools that will do that. And a really good engineer can probably get the same result with ANY emulation of any specific device. (I'm not there yet!)
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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TerraSin
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/02 14:37:04
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UA is getting a lot of heat right now with the 88RS channel strip update costing owners a lot of money for something they pretty firmly believe should be free for them since they already bought the plugin. I'm actually kind of relieved I didn't buy an Apollo like I was planning because that channel strip is one I was planning on getting first with it. Ended up getting VMR instead which I'm really happy with.
Instead I've been looking at the Antelope Orion but I'm okay with my VS-700R for the moment.
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mudgel
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/03 00:17:43
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wst3
Hi Mike,
I'm not sure using the old hardware is an advantage<G>... one thing a lot of folks overlook (whether they used the old hardware or not) is that even the old hardware doesn't always sound like the old hardware!
For me that's not really the point though. What I like about the UA emulations, and what I don't find as convincing with other emulations (no, haven't tried them all) is how they react to the music. Unfortunately this turns out to be very difficult to explain in words, or even with examples, though I continue to try.
Take the 1176, a compressor that uses a FET as the variable gain element. That architecture certainly had a signature sound! But that wasn't the thing I noticed first.
The 1176 has a fixed threshold, and variable input and output levels. One of the tricks I learned early on was how to manipulate those two controls to get a wide variety of "sounds" with the same basic amount of level control. And one of the ways one might do that is to change the level feeding the device, instead of changing the input level on the device. And the 1176s that I used generally behaved the same way when I did that. The UA emulation was the first software version that gave me that same feel.
I've had similar reactions to many of their plug-ins. The dBX 160 emulation literally transported me back in time, it behaved exactly as I remember. I haven't used one in a very long time, so I won't swear that the emulation is perfect, not even sure which of the various 160s I used over the years I'd try to use as a yardstick. But what I do know is that when I feed that little compressor a drum kit it reacts in a certain way that absolutely reminds me of the hardware. I _think_ the resulting sound is pretty darned close too - but what I really enjoy is spinning the knob and knowing roughly how it will behave. Saves time, if nothing else.
I don't know if that makes sense or not.
And I'm certainly not going to suggest that anyone get a UA card because their emulations are so cool.
I've said it many time, but I'll repeat myself - you have to use the tools that get you to the sonic/musical result you are trying to reach. There is no one set of tools that will do that. And a really good engineer can probably get the same result with ANY emulation of any specific device. (I'm not there yet!)
Yep! The main part is what's between your ears that processes what's coming into your ears. If that sounds good, it is good. At least to you. The hard part is creating something that others react to, the same way you do. You can always eliminate the last step by keeping your music all to yourself.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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wst3
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/03 13:30:36
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mudgel
The hard part is creating something that others react to, the same way you do.
You can always eliminate the last step by keeping your music all to yourself.
Dang, that's what I've been doing wrong all along, letting other folks hear my stuff<G>!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Genghis
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/04 09:03:45
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TerraSin
UA is getting a lot of heat right now with the 88RS channel strip update costing owners a lot of money for something they pretty firmly believe should be free for them since they already bought the plugin. I'm actually kind of relieved I didn't buy an Apollo like I was planning because that channel strip is one I was planning on getting first with it. Ended up getting VMR instead which I'm really happy with.
Instead I've been looking at the Antelope Orion but I'm okay with my VS-700R for the moment.
Maybe a few are complaining, but none of the second generation plugins have been free. They generally sell the upgraded versions of them to owners of the previous plugin for about half of what they retail for. The second generation plugins have been a pretty big improvement across the board and took quite a bit of development time so I wouldn't really expect them to give it away for free. It's not like they just slapped a version 2 icon on them and called it an upgrade. I've been demoing the new 88RS and I'm pretty sure I'll be picking it up for my discounted price using a couple of voucher coupons that have showed up in my account. I was a bit concerned about CPU usage, but it's less than the other Neve channel strip and has a gate and compressor built in, plus I really like the flexibility of the EQ. It is a fairly significant upgrade from the previous version, so I have no problem paying for it... but I do plan on using the vouchers I have to offset it a bit. Back to the general topic, while I haven't used the Waved emulations, I'm very happy with the UAD plugins I have and I believe they are much better than the emulations I have from other companies, IK Multimedia, Cakewalk etc. They seem to react very nicely when pushed hard and provide that nice color that many strive for in their music, while the other ones kind of start to crap out and get this unpleasant type of distortion. I guess I'm talking about the sounds when you push it just a little over the top. And you don't have to push them hard to get a nice subtle bit of color and depth added to the sound either. IMO UAD can't be beat for character and emulations. About the only non-UAD EQ and compressor plugins I use regularly are the FabFilter EQ, comp and limiter, and those are used for special purposes. (And occasionally some of the Cakewalk stuff built into Pro Channel, like the EQ.) I like the FF comp when I need side-chaining, and the EQ for when I want a clean and flexible EQ with a spectrum display. Pro Channel EQ is also fine for that.
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Eddie TX
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/05 00:52:36
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Genghis
TerraSin
UA is getting a lot of heat right now with the 88RS channel strip update costing owners a lot of money for something they pretty firmly believe should be free for them since they already bought the plugin. I'm actually kind of relieved I didn't buy an Apollo like I was planning because that channel strip is one I was planning on getting first with it. Ended up getting VMR instead which I'm really happy with.
Instead I've been looking at the Antelope Orion but I'm okay with my VS-700R for the moment.
Maybe a few are complaining, but none of the second generation plugins have been free. They generally sell the upgraded versions of them to owners of the previous plugin for about half of what they retail for. The second generation plugins have been a pretty big improvement across the board and took quite a bit of development time so I wouldn't really expect them to give it away for free. It's not like they just slapped a version 2 icon on them and called it an upgrade.
Exactly. For some reason the new 88RS has prompted a troll-fest, even though the upgrade is priced exactly the same as every single one of their other revamped plugins. It makes no sense at all. This plugin is so much better than the original, it's a disservice to refer to it as a simple "upgrade" -- it's a complete ground-up redo that models the Neve channel strip from input to output using UA's latest tech. It's a stunning achievement, well worth the asking price, trolls be damned. This product is just one of many UAD plugs that have no equal in native-land, IMHO. The API Vision strip is another, as are all the reworked vintage compressors and equalizers like the 1176, LA2A, Fairchild, Pultec, etc. And don't get me started on the reverbs and delays -- they're fantastic. There are several other vendors whose products I use and like -- Waves, FabFilter (tops in GUIs), Slate, Metric Halo, etc. But IMHO nobody touches UAD plugs when it comes to emulations of real hardware. To help deal with the expense (which is certainly considerable), you can take advantage of sales, coupons, and other promos. Hey look, right now if you buy certain cards or external DSP units, you get extra free plugins -- the Duo gets you the new Pultec collection, but if you can swing it I'd go for the Quad and take the Lexicon 224. Totally worth it, I'd say. Have fun! Cheers, Eddie
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Billy Buck
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/05 09:13:37
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Eddie TX
To help deal with the expense (which is certainly considerable), you can take advantage of sales, coupons, and other promos. Hey look, right now if you buy certain cards or external DSP units, you get extra free plugins -- the Duo gets you the new Pultec collection, but if you can swing it I'd go for the Quad and take the Lexicon 224. Totally worth it, I'd say. Have fun!
Cheers,
Eddie
Yeah, I recently picked up an Apollo Twin Duo (for use with my TB Mac Mini) during their Apollo plug-in promo. Since I already had licenses in my UA account for the promo plug-ins I got the equivalent in plug-in vouchers ($498). Almost $500 back for purchasing a $756 Apollo Twin Duo! Sweet! UA also added a $25 plug-in coupon into my account on the first of June. So I used those $523 dollars in plug-in vouchers to take advantage of the huge UA Half-Yearly plug-in sale to pick up a few recent plug-ins I did not have. So basically for purchasing an Apollo Twin Duo, I picked up the new Neve 88RS upgrade, Friedman Amp Collection, Chandler GAV19T Amp & the Distortion Pedal Bundle as part of the deal and saved $$$ in the process. Very happy UA customer! Cheers, Billy Buck
post edited by Billy Buck - 2015/06/05 11:21:22
Win 10 Pro x64 | i7 4770k | ASUS Z87 Deluxe/Quad w/ TB 2.0 | 16GB Corsair RAM | Apollo Twin Duo USB | UAD Satellite Octo USB | UAD-2 Quad + UAD-2 Solo PCIe | SONAR Platinum x64 ∞ | REAPER 5 x64| TranzPort
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Billy Buck
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Re: Experience with UA cards and their related plugins
2015/06/05 14:33:38
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Oh and for the OP, if you are thinking about getting a UAD-2 device (PCIe is best), UA currently has a "Power Users" sale going on until June 30th. Purchase a UAD-2 card and get free premium plug-ins commensurate with the value of the card that you purchase. You will also get a $50 plug-in voucher to go towards any of the entire UAD plug-in catalog currently on sale (until end of June). If you are looking to buy a UAD device and want to save a lot of money, now is the time..... http://www.uaudio.com/promotions.html
post edited by Billy Buck - 2015/06/05 14:39:42
Win 10 Pro x64 | i7 4770k | ASUS Z87 Deluxe/Quad w/ TB 2.0 | 16GB Corsair RAM | Apollo Twin Duo USB | UAD Satellite Octo USB | UAD-2 Quad + UAD-2 Solo PCIe | SONAR Platinum x64 ∞ | REAPER 5 x64| TranzPort
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