jasjoh@comcast.net
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Need Help With Upgrade Decision
Greetings to all. I would appreciate any advice and opinions on some upgrade questions. Currently I run X3e Producer. Cakewalk is throwing tempting upgrade offers at me and I am kind of short circuited in making a decision. I am just getting back into recording and playing. I will be mainly working with just myself in my little project studio at the house. No room for a band and no plans for doing any "for hire" work involving recording other people. Maybe the occasional "guest" collaboration. Since I am working solo, I am craving some more instrumentation. I have Komplete Elements, which let me explore the NI stuff and I am really looking hard at Komplete Ultimate but that's a lot of $$ and you are 2nd class citizen if you bought Elements as far as upgrades go. (seriously, just get the free players and save the money to buy the full suite) But I didn't come here to talk about brand N, I came to ask about Rapture Pro upgrade with possible Z3TA+2 bundle as well as Sonar Platinum. Since I have X3e Producer and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what it can do, I can't decide if grabbing the Upgrade pricing for Platinum is really money well spent. Same with Rapture Pro / Z3TA+2 bundle. I can do a combination of things but I can not justify doing everything at this time. I also want to either get a second midi controller or retire my PC88-MX, it's 20 years old this year, battle scarred and the clunking keys can be heard even with headphones on ( yeah it's been a workhorse, wish I could get a new keybed) So:
1. Rapture Pro with Z3TA+2 ??? or stay with versions that came with Producer
2. Platinum? or Stay with X3? ( has anyone had any major nightmares with upgrade or is it fairly seamless)
3. Anybody use the Necktar XL controllers? I know it's not weighted/hammer action but as I get older, that may not be such a bad thing :p
I really appreciate this forum, even though I am not an active participant. There is a treasure trove of info here and I say Thank You to everyone who take the time to post relevant stuff.
Sorry for the long post.
Jason
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subtlearts
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 11:46:14
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Hmm. That's a tough one. Platinum is a great upgrade but for your purposes probably not an essential one, as X3Producer is a pretty full-formed DAW in its own rite, so quite possible your money might be spent elsewhere. But it seems to be getting better and better, and remember you can always jump in on a monthly plan any time they release something that seems essential to you.
Rapture Pro is a great and full-featured flagship for the money, but does seem to have some teething pains we're all waiting for the Bakers to attend to. Hopefully soon, but just so that you know. There's potential there, and a ton of sound for the money (not so much that much that you don't already have in DimPro and Rapture, but more potential for deep tweaking esp on the Dimension library) but it's a wee bit wobbly in its current incarnation.
I have the full Komplete 9 - not Ultimate, just standard but even so it's an amazingly deep package, hard to imagine running out of possibilities. If you need a new controller you could consider the Komplete Kontrol series, which interface with it beautifully and have pretty much the best synth-action keyboard feel I've ever played. (Even without the keyboard, I'm finding the Komplete Kontrol software a nice environment for quickly finding sounds I have in the library but might otherwise never have stumbled on - but still being able to tweak them deeply.)
Or you could wait a bit for the Akai Advance series to drop - similar deep hardware-software integration but not as tied to the NI stuff (still seems to work well with it though, from the walkthroughs I've seen) - I've heard NI is opening their platform up as well, but that depends on other manufacturers supporting it, whereas Akai seems to be doing a lot of integration out of the box. I've also heard they have a great keyboard feel but again, non-weighted. I need hammer-action keys for some purposes, but your mileage may vary...
Z3TA+2 is a great upgrade from the original, but much in the same line. If you liked the original, it's more or less a no-brainer, if you didn't use the original much then maybe not.
Not sure if that's helpful but it's hard to really give you a "you should definitely do this" kind of answer - everyone's purposes, needs and budget are different...
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paulo
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 11:48:05
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I don't know what deals you are being offered so can't comment re value for money and as with all things it largely depends on what you are aiming for in your productions.
Personally, I stuck with X3PE and skipped the upgrade this time. Not enough there for me to consider it a worthwhile upgrade to X3 at present and it still seems to have a few issues 4 updates in going by what I read here. So far, most of the promised "extras" seem to consist of content rather than actual new program features, but as I understand it you won't get that stuff anyway as you have to be a "member" at the time it's released to so. If you visit the Cakewalk instruments forum I think it would be fair to say that Rapture Pro is something of a problem child in it's current state, so I would probably swerve that for now at least. I have Z3ta+2 which is ok, but I don't really use that much if I'm honest (Omnisphere junkie!) but also partly because the arp function is tempermental and I can't be doing with messing with things that don't work properly all the time . There are some decent free VST synths (your search engine of choice is your friend here) if you just want to expand your sonic range while you save up for something better.
Other than that it's all good ;)
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subtlearts
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 11:56:06
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Oh right, that's the other thing you could do with your play money - get Omnisphere. I don't have it myself but from all reports that's another giant universe of incredible sound that should keep you inspired for a good while. The new version looks incredible.
Doesn't help with your controller situation though!...
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 12:30:01
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Platinum is X3E with bolts ons and bug fixes. If you find out there's a bug fixed in Platinum or a feature you need in Platinum then upgrade. Same with the content. Rap Pro will be a good synth but it's not there yet. Also note Platinum has some performance and stability fixes.
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jasjoh@comcast.net
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 13:54:37
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Wow, great responses. Thank you all. I was leaning towards holding off on the Platinum upgrade.I didn't see too much gain from the switch and could almost anticipate some hassles. I just now have X3 dialed into to my system and my liking. Price wise the deals are as follows:
Rapture Pro upgrade is $79.00 (149 bundled with Z3TA+2) and the Platinum upgrade is also $149.
My concern would be upgrading Rapture & Z3TA only to have to re-do them if I go to Platinum since it ships with Raputre not Pro and Z3TA+ not 2. Looks like I will do a little more research on Rapture pro and may just upgrade Z3TA+ and hold out for NI to do a real sale on Komplete Ultimate. I like their cinematic stuff and unbundled, it's just too expensive piece by piece. Omnisphere is on the lust list as well. But at some point I should probably just make some music instead of going through program lists plinking on sounds.
I really appreciate the feedback!
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 13:58:39
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paulo
I don't know what deals you are being offered so can't comment re value for money and as with all things it largely depends on what you are aiming for in your productions.
Personally, I stuck with X3PE and skipped the upgrade this time. Not enough there for me to consider it a worthwhile upgrade to X3 at present and it still seems to have a few issues 4 updates in going by what I read here. So far, most of the promised "extras" seem to consist of content rather than actual new program features, but as I understand it you won't get that stuff anyway as you have to be a "member" at the time it's released to so. If you visit the Cakewalk instruments forum I think it would be fair to say that Rapture Pro is something of a problem child in it's current state, so I would probably swerve that for now at least. I have Z3ta+2 which is ok, but I don't really use that much if I'm honest (Omnisphere junkie!) but also partly because the arp function is tempermental and I can't be doing with messing with things that don't work properly all the time . There are some decent free VST synths (your search engine of choice is your friend here) if you just want to expand your sonic range while you save up for something better.
Other than that it's all good ;)
We are going to do be doing updates every month. I am sure we call all agree that all software has room for improvements. Don't take the fact that we have done 4 updates as a negative. In fact, we'll be improving SONAR (even though it is very mature and stable) every month and making it better and better. That should be viewed as a positive instead of doing a few patches like most software companies do and moving to a new version.
post edited by Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] - 2015/05/21 00:39:06
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forkol
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 14:36:11
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You're just like me, hee hee. Just one more synth, or one more effect, or just one more DAW..., but it's my hobby, and I guess I could be spending it on much worse!
The first question I would ask is what kind of music are you making? Because I will bet that if you are not even using Dimension Pro and Rapture now, you're probably not likely to use Rapture Pro. So I think you're fine holding out on the next sale.
I agree with Doktor Avalanche. Because of Cakewalk's new sales model, I will probably hold off upgrades to Platinum until I really want or need something, or am getting hit with some hard bug, or if a good sale comes up. Otherwise, X3 seems to be doing what I need for now.
I do really like Komplete Ultimate, and maybe a way to get into it is see if you can find a cheap copy of Kontakt, Reaktor or Guitar Rig. Then catch the next big sale to get to Komplete or Ultimate with a crossgrade.
I myself was looking at the Nektar, but I have a PCR-800 still in the box, and I have a Keystation Pro 88, which is weighted, but I really don't like the feel, but it has a *ton* of programmable controls. I'm considering replacing it with a real digital piano with USB midi, and attach to it another controller that has controls only, since I really like the feel of a weighted digital piano.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 14:38:24
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We are going to do be doing updates every month. I am sure we call all agree that all software has room for improvements. Don't take the fact that we have done 4 updates as a negative. In fact, we'll be improving SONAR (even though it is very mature and stable) every month and making it better and better. That should be viewed as a positive instead of doing a few patches like most software companies do and moving to a new version.
Point of order.... There's is one thing I disagree with in this statement. It shouldn't be viewed that way.. it is that way! +1
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 15:02:06
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forkol
I do really like Komplete Ultimate, and maybe a way to get into it is see if you can find a cheap copy of Kontakt, Reaktor or Guitar Rig. Then catch the next big sale to get to Komplete or Ultimate with a crossgrade.
A "cheap" way is to buy a Maschine. Right now it's bundled with Komplete Select (just released) which has a whole load of goodies from Komplete 10. Double check this but I think you can crossgrade...
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jasjoh@comcast.net
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 15:06:48
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Controller wise, well that is a very personal thing and I'm really not 100% sure I want to go away from Hammer/Weighted action but I would not get rid of my PC88, just preserve what's left of it,
I know I would miss not having 88 keys ( 76 key controllers are out of fashion I guess).
To add to the chaos, NI is throwing a discount on Komplete / Std or Ultimate *crossgrade if you buy their controller. But I have heard good and bad on those as well. Seems the Arp and some other items don't always map correctly to DAW's in general ( not a slam on Cakewalk, but a slam on NI )
Speaking of Cakewalk, just because we are having this debate doesn't mean that I won't jump on board the new stuff. I'm just cautious AND cheap!! The fact that the "Bakers" are improving things and adding new features is totally positive. It shows that this is a platform that is in it for the long haul. So many "new" DAW's popping up here and there and then "poof" gone tomorrow. The Big 4 have stood the test of time. Thank you to the "Bakers" for trying new things. You can't have bugs in the code if you never touch the code. So keep up the good work.
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azslow3
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 15:37:46
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As home hobby player, I have found nothing deal breaking in Platinum itself. They may be fixing and adding something important for other while not touching extremely buggy part (since years) I use. But in case you would like to have more AD2 packs, upgrade is a good way to get them.
Rapture Pro.... beta version at most. And while other have introduced Kontrol and Advanced, they think that Touch is the only way you want to select the sound of your synth. They have exposed many hundreds parameters, but I have not found the only one I need. May be Tascam is planning to produce MIDI keyboard with build in touch screen?
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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subtlearts
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/20 16:42:37
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We are going to do be doing updates every month. I am sure we call all agree that all software has room for improvements. Don't take the fact that we have done 4 updates as a negative. In fact, we'll be improving SONAR (even though it is very mature and stable) every month and making it better and better. That should be viewed as a positive instead of doing a few patches like most software companies do and moving to a new version.
I'm trying to figure out how this was a reply to anything in my post, but maybe it was just random. I am happy there have been 4 updates to what was really a fairly stable initial release, and I'm looking forward to the next one! I'm a pretty happy Platinum camper and totally down with the new model. I just speculated that it might not be the best use of the OP's money given his description of where he's at...
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/21 00:35:47
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subtlearts
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We are going to do be doing updates every month. I am sure we call all agree that all software has room for improvements. Don't take the fact that we have done 4 updates as a negative. In fact, we'll be improving SONAR (even though it is very mature and stable) every month and making it better and better. That should be viewed as a positive instead of doing a few patches like most software companies do and moving to a new version.
I'm trying to figure out how this was a reply to anything in my post, but maybe it was just random. I am happy there have been 4 updates to what was really a fairly stable initial release, and I'm looking forward to the next one! I'm a pretty happy Platinum camper and totally down with the new model. I just speculated that it might not be the best use of the OP's money given his description of where he's at...
Ah, you are right. It was meant for Paulo but I think I clicked the wrong quote. I fixed it now. Sorry.
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paulo
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/21 05:17:07
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We are going to do be doing updates every month. I am sure we call all agree that all software has room for improvements. Don't take the fact that we have done 4 updates as a negative. In fact, we'll be improving SONAR (even though it is very mature and stable) every month and making it better and better. That should be viewed as a positive instead of doing a few patches like most software companies do and moving to a new version.
At no point did I say that having 4 updates so far was a bad thing or negative thing, I simply stated that going by what I read here there still seem to be a few issues with it (some of which seem to have actually been caused by the regular updates). The OP asked for opinions from fellow CW/Sonar users on whether he should upgrade or not and I gave him mine based on my observations of the new version so far. FWIW I think it might still be a bit early for you yet to lambast the way "other" companies give you " a few patches and then move to a new version" . Last time I loooked (yesterday) the Undo function does not work properly in X3E which was a known issue, yet here we are with a new version and that very simple, but very annoying fix has now been completely forgotten because ................hey everyone, we have a new, new version now.....
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subtlearts
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/21 07:25:01
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Ah, you are right. It was meant for Paulo but I think I clicked the wrong quote. I fixed it now. Sorry.
No problem from my side, I was just a bit confused by it. But then I'm often confused... 
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Anderton
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Re: Need Help With Upgrade Decision
2015/05/21 07:41:41
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paulo
as I understand it you won't get that stuff anyway as you have to be a "member" at the time it's released
FWIW that was true only with the Brian Hardgroove bass loop library. It was created as a commercial product, but Brian switched to SONAR last year and really likes it, so he wanted to support the Membership Program by making his library free for one month to the "early adopters." All the other content (so far) you get later on. There may be other instances in the future, though, where content is pegged to a specific month but I don't know of anything like that planned at the moment. A good way to find out what's in the releases is to check out the PDFs of new features. For example, they list the bug fixes, enhancements to Mix Recall, etc. as well as descriptions of the content.
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