What methods do you folks use for sandboxing?

A good question, and I'll see where this leads...
 
I'm still doing stuff they way I always have, for many years now, and I've never bothered to try new ideas and techniques. Which is probably why I have a ton of eight/sixteen bar projects still not progressed any further.
 
Sorry I can't help... I more in need of help myself 

I've heard of Band in a Box, for sure, and I knew someone once, many years ago that used it, but I was already using Cakewalk by then and didn't fancy learning another new "toy." I couldn't remember what it was like so I've just googled it and pulled up a couple of videos.
 
That looks like a really handy tool. I understand where you're coming from regarding not being so useful for some kinds of music, but this would help me to mess around with chord progressions and also a backing for guitar practise.
 
The thing that puts me off is, it ain't cheap... especially once you get into the additional content (realtracks and what have you).
 
A tough call really, because I am sure that it would help me, even though I produce electronic music...
 
Thanks for pointing that out 

BIAB is a great tool for hearing what you have written realized in more of a band/combo format. It can be great inspiration for understanding what is missing and what might work. I often will take my BIAB files and dump them right into Sonar, where you can edit to our heart's content. My favorite way of working with it is to set up my basic ideas and rehearse with it, especially when I'm writing a bass part or keyboard part(neither of which is my primary instrument.) You have to know when to get it into Sonar though, because trying to manipulate styles can be a little tedious in BIAB. 
Bottom line though, is BIAB is insanely simple for what results you get, and usually the parts are fairly well arranged. It will not write a song for you, you still have to provide intelligent chords for it, but it's a great way of testing a bunch of chords and see which work and have a "band" follow right along with it.

When I've done this in the past I kind of do it in such a rudimentary and ridiculous way that it might be laughable.
 
Want I do is I'll drag in some drum loops or tap out some drum loops on my padKontrol that fit some of the rudimentary riffs I want to use in the song. I try to make sure that those drum parts aren't too hyper specific so they'll fit over anything I might add on (and if I go too far astray I'll find more appropriate loops or create more of my own). Those all get turned into short Groove Clips and I drag them way down the timeline so they are out of my working area (so I may start off thinking the song will be 3-4 minutes and then drag them to the 5-6 minute mark of the MIDI drum track).
 
I may also do that with some bass stuff but I usually do the guitar first and really adding a third track just makes things more complicated. However a bassline/riff clip can be linked to specific guit clips for easy editing/structuring.
 
So as I write the riffs I simply copy/drag the appropriate loop to the appropriate spot. Because they are "Grooves" I can drag them out/in/edit them as far as the riff need.
 
In the guit track I'll record little riff chunks into the lanes then trim them to beat/measure markers.
 
Now a I can just drag the riffs and beats around until I get a structure going and insert new/distinct riffs or tags or whatever as needed. All my drum parts are off screen and if I've got a riff that I kind of want to use but it ain't fitting in properly I can drag that off screen. Actually I could copy/drag all the riff clips off screen underneath the drum clips they work with to do easy Ctrl + Select + Drag of sections but I haven't really needed to do that yet.
 
So really the arse end of my project ends up a clip/beat/riff depository and I write into and build up the song on the timeline before that. If the song starts getting too long I can just Lasso all the source clips and drag them further down the timeline to get them out of the way.
 
Obviously the more tracks/instruments invloved this process gets more complex but I have always preferred writing with just the guitar and drums first to get the structure and then wrapping/writing everything around that.
 
We really should have that "Block" style editing I keep hearing so much about in other DAWs though the seems to essentially allow you to segment a project vertically into columns that you can select and move/copy/etc and hopefully deselect elements from. That to me would be an excellent songwriting workflow.
 
Cheers.

I am glad you asked that, since every company has different renditions of what "crossgrade" means! I actually used their LIVE chat feature for 2 questions:

1. Demo - Nope.
2. Crossgrade (to them) - users switching between Mac <-> PC versions. This does not include a competitive crossgrade.

When you decide to buy Band In A Box.... buy as far up the version chain as you can buy. Ultra plus pack as a minimum or the Everything Pack..... Stop short of the Audiophile version. You really don't need that version unless you absolutely have the money and want it.  The Everything pack is exactly what it says.... it's everything. Could be considered a bit pricy BUT..... pay for a good session with some Nashville pickers and you could have bought the Everything pack and had those guys on call for all your music.  Real tracks are recordings of the best of the best studio and working musicians recorded in such a way that the program takes those recordings and somehow.... don't ask me how it does it, shapes that playing into the song YOU are asking it to play..... in the key you chose, at the tempo you selected, and in the style you like.
 
The further up you go, the more stuff you get and that includes ALL of the real tracks.   I use Real Tracks and the Real Drum Tracks exclusively in my musical compositions. 100% audio files. The real tracks are simply amazing.  Compose it in Band in a Box and then render the real tracks in Real Band.   RB is a DAW of sorts but I never use it for that. I simply use it to generate the real track waves.   When done right, the result is breathtaking.
 
 
If you have not done so..... go to my music site below and listen to some of the songs on the first page. Everything there is either 100% BB/RB with the Real Tracks or a combination of RT's and my live guitar playing combined. I mix, produce, edit, and export the finals from SONAR.  Look for a song called The Best Christmas..... this one is a great example of Real Tracks playing a hot country solo. Nothing in that song was played live. It's 100% BB/RB.

They are starting to add dance music and electronic genres and styles to the RT's so there may be some things in there to get you going in that style/genre. Euro-tech, Enya, etc....

BIAB is definitely on the radar but not given up on SONAR yet. I rarely make project templates, but finding MV (audio) and TTS-1 (midi) makes a pretty decent sandbox. MidiChords actually does nicely for chord duties with programs set up, and Geist is actually doing much of the MIDI driving ("Cambridge" no-likey Geist in case you missed that post sharke, FYI).

@Guitarhacker, I have listened to your page before and love the work you have done there. A definite endorsement for BIAB. The stuff to be completed on my plate ATM should be simple when I finalize that template (famous last words, I know).

One thing I have learned over the years, is that everything is a sandbox
 
At this time I try to get a thought in my head.... then I load up my DAW and try and find an EZ Drummer pattern and sound that fits. From there I play around until I get something I like. At that point, I will start a new song to try and nail it down. Sometimes I get it in one song.... sometimes it take a few more, which means some of those earlier songs were just "sand boxes"...
 
Mark Knopfler was once asked in a guitar player mag interview if he ever listened to his albums and wished he had done something differently. His response was "everything". Apparently, the "Brothers in Arms" CD was a sand box
 

I guess we from the UK Sandpit

OK Guitarhacker, for some reason I said why not and have purchased Band In A Box Everything Pak. The good news is they (PG Music) honor sale prices from valid vendors and sold me the pak for 349 us.  that was a savings from 569. The price I sent a link to for them to honor was download only with no HD. They are sending an HD and download code any way, because they are Canadian and they are all so nice up there.
 
This is all your fault. However it works out.
 
amk

One process I try to stay open to is mistakes. As in, playing out a chord progression and messing up, but liking the mess up. I quickly jot down what I did (wrong) for playing around with in a couple of minutes. Or sometimes, if I'm recording, I'll grab the errant clip and stash it way at the end of the timeline. Actually, I've started to dragging clips right off to a folder in the browser. This is a new way of working, don't recall exactly when Sonar started supporting it, so I'm trying to work it into my routine.
 
Reading about the successes with BiaB above made me give it a look-see, that process sounded neat and fast. But after a while I realized I wouldn't be making mistakes, wouldn't be "close enough" to the notes (fingers on keys or strings or holes or skins), so that route won't fly for me. I don't want fast that bad.
 
I've dabbled with the matrix view. Kind of like it sometimes. I can use some of those clips I've dragged off (mentioned above) and mash them together. I don't view matrix as an end product. Well, mostly. But it's a fun creative.
 
Related to matrix, a trick I've found for playing around is to drag a clip into an empty Dim Pro instance. Then I can instantly transpose it, from the keyboard or from Matrix view. I'm using DP as a sampler, and I know there are better, but it's right there and it works.
 
I do a lot of extended jamming to get ideas, sessions lasting from ten to 30 minutes. Sometimes they're fun, sometimes they're pure drudgery, but a writing teacher told me once to "write every day, even if it's crap" and that has worked for me. (It's a funny thing, I can look back at these jams and see "periods" in my life. Funny or creepy, sort of like Krapp's Last Tape.) One thing I've learned, or--more like it--come to terms with over the years is to jam to a click (metronome). I know, I know, I hate it sometimes too. But I've found that an idea set to a "legitimate" beat is way easier to transpose to a piece than one that floats around. So the steady ideas get worked on and move forward, while the ethereal ideas just sort of stay that way and take up drive space. I jam to a click, it's a trade-off.
 
One more idea (for today at least). When I "sandbox" or improvise or jam or whatever, I typically use two or three soft synths at a time (controlled by one keyboard or the midi guitar), to get a BIG sound. Well, maybe not only big, just a lot of frequency, lows, highs, breathy, choppy, ethereal (_that_ word again), cinematic, whatever. It's like hearing an orchestra (in a vague new-age-y sense) and I think it helps the juices of creativity. Sometimes I use reverb, sometimes not. No reverb encourages faster articulation, I find, and different results.

Well it turns out I was talking bollocks about Donald Fagan and BIAB. Turns out he actually uses GarageBand to sketch out and arrange ideas! I guess somewhere down the line my brain sneakily changed the memory to Band In A Box.