Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57

Author
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5694
  • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
  • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
  • Status: offline
2015/05/26 20:42:25 (permalink)

Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57

https://youtu.be/s67PQ8ZoBKk
 
Just playing. Does the mic sound right to you? I'm supposed to test it right away to make sure it wasn't damaged in shipping.
 
I'm really excited about it, the more I listen to it. I'm trying to make sure it's working properly. It turns out there's a lot of rattle and hum in my room. 
 
I want to give thanks to Tatiana at Marshall for helping me get the Mic.
 
And lastly, the mic came with white gloves. Do any of you use white gloves when handling Ribbons?
post edited by gswitz - 2015/05/26 20:51:27

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/27 14:29:34 (permalink)
    Bump.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #2
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/27 15:41:31 (permalink)
    Sounds like you made out on that mic deal. 
     
    The difference between the microphones is so drastic that I wonder if it's not explainable primarily by microphone position rather than differences between the microphones themselves. You can get those differences by simply moving the microphone an inch or two from side to side.
     
    And where IS that 40KHz content coming from? It's not your amplifier.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #3
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/27 20:16:08 (permalink)
    First, thanks and praise for dropping by, Bit. I almost wanted to shoot you the link but didn't want to be a pest.
     
    No freaking idea on the 40K sound.
     
    After making the video, I thought maybe it was coming from the DAC (Audient ASP 880). So, I took a second to look at my Shure SM57 plugged into the UCX in the room with just the AC running (quietish) and noticed the noice curve up at 40K. Then I plugged the same mic into the ASP880 and it behaved sorta similar (depending on the Lo-Med-Hi impedance switch.
     
    So maybe there just some high pitched something going on the room? Make me interested to try it at 192.
     
    Ok... the ASP 880 only does up to 96, but the RME does to 192... here is a screenshot with the room quiet...
     


    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #4
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/27 21:14:40 (permalink)
    https://youtu.be/qdfWWg1FOyQ
     
    Bit, it looks like the issue is the Audient ASP 880. I'm guessing it doesn't have a low-pass filter for the 96S/Sec sample rate. Can't be heard by humans so I guess they don't care. Makes me want to check 88.1 and below to ensure a filter is applied. I'm starting to think the ASP 880 is junk.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #5
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/27 21:24:15 (permalink)
    I checked and the high pitched noise around 35-40K is present for the Audient ASP 880 only for the double sample rates. In other words, it doesn't show up at 20K when switching to 48 or 44.1.
     
    I'm thinking that instead of low-pass filter at the Nyquist Freq, I think they are just passing every other sample for the double rate. So the double rates have a lot of bad noise near the top of the available bandwidth for the frequency. The singles (44.1 and 48) avoid most of that noise.

    Bit, if I'm right here, wouldn't there be fold over noise in the audible frequencies?
    post edited by gswitz - 2015/05/28 14:45:40

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #6
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/30 10:23:45 (permalink)
    Yes, if there was in fact no filtering you'd get aliasing. But all ADCs employ filtering, both analog and digital. The analog filter is not at "Nyquist", meaning half the sample rate, but actually much higher.
     
    What happens is that the initial capture is done at a very high sample rate, at least 64 times higher than the target rate and possibly as much as 256x. That temporarily puts Nyquist way, way above audibility and allows use of a gentle 6dB/octave analog filter tuned to a frequency up in the megahertz region.
     
    After that initial conversion it's then knocked down to the actual target frequency by simply skipping over every N samples. Sounds wacky, but it actually works. Of course, when you record at 88.1 or 96KHz or 192KHz you naturally are going to capture inaudible stuff. If that becomes a problem (it usually doesn't, but it can) you can just insert a LPF into your track.
     
    The thing is, guitar amplifiers aren't capable of outputting more than maybe 12KHz anyway, and anything above that is noise. Furthermore, dynamic microphones (whether moving-coil or ribbon) don't give you much over 15KHz anyway. There is consequently no advantage to recording a guitar amplifier at high sample rates, although it's certainly OK to use a high sample rate for the purpose of comparing microphones, if only to take the interface out of the equation.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #7
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/30 10:43:13 (permalink)
    Bit,
     
    Why would there be noise using the ASP 880 and not using the RME UCX? It's kinda puzzle to me.
     
    In my test, I recorded the MXL Ribbon Mic plugged into the UCX and the Shure SM57 into the Audient ASP 880. In this test, the Shure showed the high noise.
    I flipped them and the MXL showed the noise the the Sure didn't.
     
    That means the noise only shows up on the Audient.
     
    I was trying to understand why.
     
    I switched the cables at the interfaces not at the mics, so the cables aren't the answer.
     
    The Audient has a switch for impedance - low, med, high. The RME doesn't. The noise exists equally using the Audient regardless of the impedance setting.
     
    I guess I was thinking I had uncovered a problem with the Audient, but I don't really know enough to say. I can just say that tracks recorded with it have a lot of high end noise showing when using double sample rates and only when the amount of signal is significant.
     
    Mostly, I want to try to understand it. Is it a short coming of the interface? 
    post edited by gswitz - 2015/05/30 11:02:28

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #8
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/31 11:23:14 (permalink)
    I doubt the noise is coming from the microphone, so it would almost have to be originating in the interface assuming there are no other components in the chain (e.g. a separate mic pre or compressor). My guess would be that it's in the analog portion of the interface rather than in the conversion, e.g. a noisy op-amp.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #9
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/05/31 12:01:22 (permalink)
    The mics are plugged directly into the interfaces. There is nothing else in the chain.
     
    Would different channels share the same op-amp? the different channels on the interface perform similarly.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #10
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/06/02 07:53:44 (permalink)
    It depends. It could have discreet op-amps for each channel, or there could be one op-amp for each group of 4 channels (four amplifiers in one chip).
     
    And all the amplifiers are going to share a common power supply, so if there was noise coming from there it would be distributed among all channels. This is a pretty common problem, and all it takes is one leaky capacitor to start making trouble.
     
    Either way, it's likely an analog rather than a digital problem. And I wouldn't worry too much about it, as 40KHz is easy to remove without affecting sound quality. For starters, don't record at 88.1 or 96 KHz as that alone will assure no 40KHz content.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #11
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/06/02 20:33:37 (permalink)
    Lol. Yep. I've been really pretty happy with the device so far.
     
    I don't mean to be a whiner. I did just have the huge win of working with Marshall on a Mic that was indeed a problem, so thanks for helping reassure me about my interface.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #12
    tagruvto
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 221
    • Joined: 2003/12/03 17:21:29
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/06/02 23:14:18 (permalink)
    I'm a big fan of ribbon mic's on guitar, and was somewhat surprised at the extreme differences between your two mics.
     
    Just curious, was the ribbon positioned in front of the cone and the dynamic nearer the edge?
     
    I like to place the ribbon about a foot from the speaker and about 10 inches above the floor.  IMHO this gives a very honest reproduction of the amp.

    i7-4770 CPU @3.40 GHZ
    16.0 GB RAM
    Widows 10   64-bit
    SONAR Platinum
    Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
    #13
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Me with my first Ribbon (MXL R77) compared to Shure SM57 2015/06/04 20:44:14 (permalink)
    Both mics were about 5 inches from a cone.
     
    The amp was a fender 4x10 Deville.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #14
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1