Helpful ReplyBackground Vocal Technique

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BMOG
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2015/05/27 21:39:02 (permalink)

Background Vocal Technique

In Platinum with the new tools what are some of your effective technique for lining up vocal phrases so everything sounds as one?  I tried using vocal synch and that helped but I needed audio snap to move transients to match phrases.  Looking for any recording tips to avoid any of this thanks in advance
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batsbrew
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/28 12:59:10 (permalink)
i always think naturally sung vocals sound better,
with the nuances of 'off time' and pitches and all that,
to me sounds SO MUCH BETTER than stuff that is quantized and basically clown-phucked.
but that's me.
 
i like it au naturale  

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batsbrew
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/28 13:02:17 (permalink)
and to expound on my approach:
 
i use volume (fader) envelopes, and also use manual hard destructive edits, chopping off the tops and tails of the wavs, 
like breaths too early,
or end phrase fades that don't all end together----
i just throw automation on them, to get them to fade together.
 
maybe using that program thingy might be quicker!
LOL

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bitflipper
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/28 14:59:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby stickman393 2015/05/28 15:12:51
Lining up vocals is a tricky business. It's a lot like pitch-correction, in that a little goes a long way and over-doing it can actually ruin an otherwise good part.
 
I don't have Platinum, but I've used AudioSnap, V-Vocal and Melodyne for vocal alignment. In my early attempts it took me awhile to figure out why my BGVs were often getting worse after alignment instead of better. Turned out they were actually too closely synchronized, to the point where I was getting comb filtering!
 
Nowadays, I approach it much less vigorously. Some lessons learned:
 
1. Evaluate vocals phrase-by-phrase. Listen to each section in the context of the mix and ask yourself if it really needs adjustment. Don't assume that alignment is always needed and don't assume that it will always help.
 
2. Looseness actually helps extended vowels by enhancing the chorusing effect. For the most part, I only align consonants and short vowels and don't worry too much about anything else.
 
3. Instead of aligning consonants, suppress them. When you have multi-part harmonies or double-tracked vocals, only one of the tracks needs to supply the consonants. The others can be aggressively compressed with a fast attack. A multi-band compressor or dynamic equalizer works well for this. Taking a little off the top of the spectrum helps, too, in the 3-4Khz range.
 
Listen to old recordings that have lots of vocal layers but no digital timing adjustments. Jethro Tull and Genesis double-tracked lead vocals, Fleetwood Mac layered and doubled harmonies. Anything John Lennon ever sang. They're all loose, and they all sound f*cking great.


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stickman393
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/28 15:07:55 (permalink)
Ah, BitFlipper said it better than I could.
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Rimshot
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/28 18:47:58 (permalink)
From Bit:
":3. Instead of aligning consonants, suppress them. When you have multi-part harmonies or double-tracked vocals, only one of the tracks needs to supply the consonants. The others can be aggressively compressed with a fast attack. A multi-band compressor or dynamic equalizer works well for this. Taking a little off the top of the spectrum helps, too, in the 3-4Khz range."
 
That is great advice and I learned it from years experience as a sound engineer. Well said Bit! 

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Guitarhacker
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/29 11:00:29 (permalink)
Yes... +1 to Bitflipper's post.
 
One additional thing I do...or don't do depending on how you look at it.... I only apply pitch correction to the main lead vocal in most cases unless something is really, really off on the BGV track.
 
I use envelopes and destructive editing (mute) to chop the breath sounds and eliminate the multiple endings on a phrase..... I only need one vox track to hit that "S" on the end of a phrase to have it sound good.
 
Unless you're going for a Skyland Vocal Band or Statler Brothers kind of BGV harmony.... which I generally do not, keep the BGV tracks much lower..... generally -10dB or more below the main. Some of mine are -18dB to -22dB down. Of course, all of that is a personal taste issue. I'm mixing one now with BGV between -6dB and -10dB.
 
To get it to sound "as one" doesn't require perfect alignment. As Dave pointed out, that can actually be a bad thing. Close is good and sounds really nice.  Again, it depends on what you're going for in the final sound. Sometimes perfect alignment is just the thing that's needed. When done right it's freaking awesome when the vox are all perfectly tuned too.  If you only use one track per vocal part... no doubled high harmony singing the same notes.... the comb filtering with perfect alignment is lessened or eliminated since the tracks are not identical even though they are singing in the same time and phrasing.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2015/05/29 11:10:35

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lawajava
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/05/30 13:39:46 (permalink)
Rimshot
From Bit:
":3. Instead of aligning consonants, suppress them. When you have multi-part harmonies or double-tracked vocals, only one of the tracks needs to supply the consonants. The others can be aggressively compressed with a fast attack. A multi-band compressor or dynamic equalizer works well for this. Taking a little off the top of the spectrum helps, too, in the 3-4Khz range."
 
That is great advice and I learned it from years experience as a sound engineer. Well said Bit! 




Another +1 to Bitflipper's comment.  A wonderful thing - the forum.  You pick up nuggets like this.

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codamedia
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/02 08:47:17 (permalink)
For me it starts with a well sung background track. A good singer that is used to doing harmony's will get it tight from the beginning. They do this by automatically applying the methods that bitflipper is suggesting. They don't sing an "S", they stay low on the consonants and they match the phrasing.
 
When that is not possible... I'd go with what bitflipper says. Depending on the part, I would aggressively DeEss. Nothing sounds worse than 2 or more vocal parts sounding like a snake at the end of a phrase. 
 
For tuning... only when absolutely needed. Everyone should take a song like "Seven Bridges Road" from the Eagles and run the beginning through melodyne (poly detection). As great as that vocal part is, it is not perfect - and that's the magic.

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Kamikaze
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/02 10:31:26 (permalink)
Will it still sound like the Eagles?
 

 
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codamedia
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/02 17:15:50 (permalink)
Kamikaze
Will it still sound like the Eagles?



Sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean you should "fix it" in Melodyne, I meant you should analyze it to see that individual perfection is not needed for overall perfection to occur 
post edited by codamedia - 2015/06/02 21:24:04

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Kamikaze
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/03 11:01:22 (permalink)
but it will still sound like the eagles!

 
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batsbrew
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/03 11:28:32 (permalink)
probably wont.

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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/03 11:40:34 (permalink)
Hehe, or Fat Bottomed Girls... but then it sounds like Queen.

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bitflipper
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Re: Background Vocal Technique 2015/06/03 16:59:12 (permalink)
Good example. Freddie Mercury was born with Autotune built into his larynx. I suspect Don Henley's mother had requested the same prenatal surgery.
 
The best vocal combinations seem to be those where each contributor brings a different degree of precision. Lennon/McCartney/Harrison, Henley/Frey/Walsh/Schmit, Mercury/May/Taylor - in all those cases the composite result was made up of singers who each brought varying degrees of pitch and timing precision.
 
 
Nowadays "fixing" the vocals has become automatic. Sheesh, we recently saw Aretha Franklin being tuned, aligned and comped like she was some teenage Disney Channel lip-syncing pseudo-star. Sure, she's not a strong as she was in her prime, but she'd have to fall a long way to be in the same league as me.


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