Helpful ReplyChanging ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar

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Doktor Avalanche
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2015/06/01 20:57:44 (permalink)

Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar

Here's a thing, on Maschine standalone if I playback a song, and then change the ASIO buffers on the Saffire Pro Mix control software, Maschine software will simply pause and then continue playing after service resumes at the Focusrite end...

With Sonar it just stops stating drop out unexpected....
 
What do other DAWs do?
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/01 21:04:17

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    Anderton
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 22:03:21 (permalink)
    Before I spend 25 minutes of my life that I'll never get back researching this, why is it important to know? Is there some need to be able to change sample buffers on the fly?

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 22:37:23 (permalink)
    Makes it easier to compare buffers, it also it makes me wonder why... if Sonar does drop out for any reason... why it just can't carry on regardless after scratching it's head a little, like Maschine does...
     
    I wonder if Sonar is unusual here in this behaviour, or is it Maschine. I think it's obvious which is the most desirable behaviour (or it could at least be set in preferences). Of course it's not the biggest thing and is probably a feature request...

    The bad thing about the Maschine behaviour is that it is not visually indicated. I would expect when Maschine drops out it at least indicates it so I know it happened if I went to make a cup of coffee...
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/01 22:45:23

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    Susan G
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 22:37:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Doktor Avalanche 2015/06/01 22:55:22
    Doktor Avalanche
    Here's a thing, on Maschine standalone if I playback a song, and then change the ASIO buffers on the Saffire Pro Mix control software, Maschine software will simply pause and then continue playing after service resumes at the Focusrite end...

    With Sonar it just stops stating drop out unexpected....
     
    What do other DAWs do?


    Hi Alex-
     
    I have a NI Komplete Audio 6. In "R*" I've gotten the same behavior you described with Maschine: it pauses and then continues playback when I change the buffer setting in the KA6 software. In FLS the audio engine stops, IIRC. There's no message of any kind, but I can't remember if playback resumes from where it stopped or not. I can try it later and let you know, if it matters.
     
    -Susan

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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 22:39:38 (permalink)
    Thanks - it's no real biggy - I'm just curious that's all...
    I guess this will end up being chucked in feature request forums...

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 22:48:47 (permalink)
    The penny just dropped.. The reason why Maschine behaves this way is if it drops out, you want it up and running as soon as possible for live performance.... and preferably on the beat, you don't give damn about why it happened, that's later, you just want to keep going in the slim chance of recovery...


    Whilst recording on the other hand you want to sit and ponder why it happened.
    Sonar is less tailored less towards live performance work (although it does have the playlist feature)... But I don't see any reason why it could not be a preference option one day.
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/01 22:55:49

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    Anderton
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 22:59:39 (permalink)
    Well, I guessed that Ableton Live would be the best and Pro Tools would be the worst, so I had to test them to satisfy my curiosity. Ableton Live 9 paused, then kept going. Pro Tools 10 stopped playback, and an error message appeared saying that I had to re-start Pro Tools (you can't just hit play). 
     
    But I would put a SONAR feature request for this waaaaaaaaaaaay down on the list of priorities. I hardly ever change buffer size except if I switch over to doing a final mix that has lots of virtual instruments and such, and I don't find it a workflow killer to press play after changing the buffer once prior to mixing.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    Anderton
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 23:00:57 (permalink)
    As for live performance, if the sample rate switched in the middle of playback, I'd be more worried about WTF was happening with my computer!
     

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 23:02:48 (permalink)
    Well it definitely helps when testing ASIO buffers, however the behaviour here is not just useful when changing the changing buffer size, it's when any dropout occurs that might have chance of recovery (see my previous post).
     
    I do agree this is not the biggest fish in the pond here.

    Thanks..
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/01 23:08:49

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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/01 23:05:05 (permalink)
    Anderton
    As for live performance, if the sample rate switched in the middle of playback, I'd be more worried about WTF was happening with my computer!

     
    Missing the point though, you are simulating (well creating) a dropout by changing the sample rate.
    Appreciate the feedback..

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    mettelus
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/02 00:11:34 (permalink)
    Bear in mind that Windows is the middle-man here. IIRC, Focusrite recommends not adjusting this with a host open. I do happen to do this all the time though, and it has only ever taken SONAR's audio engine offline (although I have never changed it with the transport running, and no need for that anyway). It is a simple re-enabling of the audio engine after a change.

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    mudgel
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/02 01:39:18 (permalink)
    Doktor Avalanche
    Anderton
    As for live performance, if the sample rate switched in the middle of playback, I'd be more worried about WTF was happening with my computer!

     
    Missing the point though, you are simulating (well creating) a dropout by changing the sample rate.
    Appreciate the feedback..


    I understand it's a way of causing a dropout. Wouldn't changing sample rate be a very unlikely cause for a dropout. So even though you are "emulating" a dropout is that a real world cause and effect relationship. Just asking?

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    bvideo
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/02 02:10:19 (permalink)
    For those who want to try to get Sonar to tolerate larger playback interruptions: check out the DropoutMsec=<num> parameter in the Initialization file.
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/02 07:41:45 (permalink)
    mudgel
    I understand it's a way of causing a dropout. Wouldn't changing sample rate be a very unlikely cause for a dropout. So even though you are "emulating" a dropout is that a real world cause and effect relationship. Just asking?



    I don't think Sonar or Maschine has a way of telling why the dropout happened and react accordingly.
    Dropouts happen in the real world, changing the sample rate would obviously not be real world in a live performance situation (unless Spinal Tap are playing), but there are other causes.
     
    bvideo
    For those who want to try to get Sonar to tolerate larger playback interruptions: check out the DropoutMsec=<num> parameter in the Initialization file.


    That could be interesting! Thanks....
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/02 07:48:05

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    DeeringAmps
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    Re: Changing ASIO buffers on the fly in Sonar 2015/06/02 10:31:18 (permalink)
    Changing the buffer outside of Sonar causes the audio engine to stop, requiring that Sonar be closed/reopened.
    Opening the ASIO Panel from Pref>Audio>Driver Settings>ASIO Panel... allows a change without closing Sonar.
    Playback must be stopped, BFD, the OP states that Maschine halts.
    The only difference evidently is the OP can change settings by calling up the ASIO panel directly.
    I don't see a big deal, just don't call up the ASIO Panel outside of Sonar.
    Playback stops in both scenarios (Sonar vs Maschine), pretty much a non issue; to me at least.
    Why did I not follow Craig's advice? I wasted at least 15 minutes reading, checking, commenting.
    Oh well, morning coffee; all good here...
    Tom

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