NeoSoul
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 16:20:41
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John T I don't stand in opposition to anyone's feature requests or anything, but honestly, EQ presets are the primary enemy of good mixing. There is basically never a good reason to use one.
There are specific functions that people use a lot. (rolling off bass at a certain frequency to eliminate standing waves, and bleed which the source you are recording would never have). This can be tailored to problems of a particular room you use every day. My time is valuable, things that give me certain settings quickly instead of manually setting it up for track after track, is meaningful. We also live in a world where many people use modeling amp/effect technology going into a DAW. If you are using the same guitar and the same patch you will get a consistent sound that means a pre-set EQ can provide benefit once the desired sound is achieved. Not every one uses different source for each recording. Some people have a home studio set up where the drum set is mic'd, bass cab mic'd, and so forth. If one tends to use these same instruments at the same settings on each track, presets can be valuable to get a starting point for consistency of an album sound. It isn't always about using some else's presets....many of us have legitimate reasons for using our own creation based on our own gear and mixing needs. Same can be said for getting a particular EQ on a mic that has its own signature print. If I'm always dipping out one particular notch on a particular mic....a preset might make my workflow faster.
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tlw
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 17:08:33
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To some extent the lack of eq presets for routine things like lo/hi passing guitar and bass can be handled by using a.n.other eq as the first eq the signal sees and band passing with that then the quad curve later for the rest of the eq functions.
Although I seem to be using alternative, less 'surgical' eqs for the 'musical' side of eqing quite a bit at the moment (e.g. the distinctive eqs in Wave's Abbey Road console emulations and the +10dB one, which is very nice). The quad curve really comes into its own for surgical narrow band stuff like resonant peak control.
Eq presets to cover routine settings for lo/hi passing or the times you always seem to end up using the same settings would be very useful, as would being able to put more than one quad curve in the pro channel. It's the only plugin so restricted. One work-round is to run the channel input into a bus then use the bus eq but bus proliferation simply to be able to use two eqs is a bit too much like the analogue hardware days :-)
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NeoSoul
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 17:22:14
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tlw To some extent the lack of eq presets for routine things like lo/hi passing guitar and bass can be handled by using a.n.other eq as the first eq the signal sees and band passing with that then the quad curve later for the rest of the eq functions.
It certainly could be handled that way. But the QuadEQ has very nice control over that spectrum/function and therefore adding in another EQ is really just adding another step to the process (which presets are theoretically desirable to offset added steps + work). Also note that with the Pro-Channel you can hold down control and make changes across selected tracks. This might presumably apply to presets + changes as well, thus really drawing out the efficiency possibility that might not exist with 3rd party EQ plugs.
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John T
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 17:54:05
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I take your point, but I'd argue that mixing isn't really about making individual instruments sound good or sound a particular way, it's about presenting the song and the performance. And that is always different, even if it's the same people on the same instruments in the same room.
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NeoSoul
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 18:06:21
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John T I take your point, but I'd argue that mixing isn't really about making individual instruments sound good or sound a particular way, it's about presenting the song and the performance. And that is always different, even if it's the same people on the same instruments in the same room.
I completely agree. There are some contexts where you are trying to create consistency between tracks sonic-ally. If the same instruments and players are in the same room, there are many scenarios where you would want to create the mix on a track and use those same settings across the album or group of tracks. When I record a small jazz group - I'm going to let them interact and change the dynamics and timber on their own and not dramatically change eq and effects in the DAW between tracks. The goal for me would be to use those tool to create a pleasing sounding mix where the whole sounds nice and balanced and have things sit where they should. Other type of music you might be mixing more for "effect" on a song and between tracks. Music production takes on many forms and types. Another example would be a Solo Acoustic Guitar album. Having a consistent setup between tracks and make minor tweaks from there for a song would be common place.
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John T
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 18:24:58
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Sure. They are really good counter-examples. I've probably over-stated my case. I'd retract it this far: EQ presets are the enemy of learning how to mix well.
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tlw
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 18:36:43
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I agree relying on pre-provided presets is not a good way to learn mixing. Which holds for most processing, not just e.q. E.g. compressor plugin presets, where unless you are dealing with the audio, eq, gain staging etc. whoever created the preset was it will never sound the same for you as it does for them.
Storing settings you yourself have created and use frequently, especially for things like band passing, are a different matter.
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John T
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 18:42:07
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Oh, there's definitely no use for compressor pre-sets, and I'll brook no argument on that one.
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Anderton
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 18:49:48
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I think the more specific the sound source, the more sense a preset makes. When I did the acoustic guitar ProChannel presets, they were designed around specific Gibson guitars whose names were included in the preset names. Now, that doesn't mean they won't work with other acoustic guitars, but the results will not be as expected. I have a preset for my voice using a Shure SM58, and another for the Neat Microphones King Bee mic. My voice doesn't change and the mic doesn't change, so a preset puts me in the ballpark. However because the song changes, I always need to tweak for context. If I released those as presets for "Male Vocals," the odds of them working in your studio, with your voice, your song, and your mic are probably about the same as winning the lottery.
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Karyn
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 18:54:13
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/06/03 19:01:47
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clintmartin
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 19:20:13
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I don't think presets would be of much help, but a detailed write up on the Quad-curve would be great. I use hybrid and pure most of the time. If it had a mid/side feature I would use it on the master bus more.
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thaddeusjon
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 19:20:19
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John T I take your point, but I'd argue that mixing isn't really about making individual instruments sound good or sound a particular way, it's about presenting the song and the performance. And that is always different, even if it's the same people on the same instruments in the same room.
Sure it is. Using EQ with a preset is a good starting point, if needed you tweak from there. The saxaphone preset of the Waves C-6 on a bus for the TTS -1 as a sax comes to mind. And not only is an EQ for just song presentation, but you can also use it as a musical instrument of sorts for sound creation.
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John T
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 19:23:09
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Honestly, for me, loading up an EQ preset seems more time-consuming than just turning the knobs.
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Anderton
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 21:58:44
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John T Honestly, for me, loading up an EQ preset seems more time-consuming than just turning the knobs.
This is why I like track templates
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Anderton
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 22:00:01
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clintmartin I don't think presets would be of much help, but a detailed write up on the Quad-curve would be great.
I get the impression from this thread it would be helpful to some people, so while I can't make any promises, I'll add it to the "possible useful things to do someday" list.
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Kamikaze
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/03 23:39:52
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John T Honestly, for me, loading up an EQ preset seems more time-consuming than just turning the knobs.
I can't get my head round the idea either. Each instrument (of the same type) has different responses and problem resonances, each mic and room the same too. add those 3 together and how can a preset be the first thing to go for. Then every mix requires different space. Submit Post
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Anderton
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/04 00:31:49
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Kamikaze
John T Honestly, for me, loading up an EQ preset seems more time-consuming than just turning the knobs.
I can't get my head round the idea either. Each instrument (of the same type) has different responses and problem resonances, each mic and room the same too. add those 3 together and how can a preset be the first thing to go for. Then every mix requires different space.
Submit Post
Indeed most of the time, circumstances will be different so a preset doesn't have much value. But at least for me, there are plenty of times where the circumstances are the same. For my singing voice, over the years I've developed a signal chain that works well. There's a little bit of Concrete Limiter to tame the peaks, followed by a PC2A leveler, then EQ with a steep low frequency rolloff to deal with leftover plosives, and a gentle upper mid boost. I also always use the same input for my mic. So with a track template, when tracking I have my input ready to go in under 5 seconds and giving a sound that's at least very close to what I want. It saves a lot of time. This doesn't negate tweaking during the mix, but I'm already 75-80% of the way there. I also have a track template for narration. That ensures that when doing a project with multiple "chapters" over a period of time, the voice will have a consistent timbre - I won't have to spend time doing timbre-matching at the back end of the projects. Presets definitely have their uses.
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Kamikaze
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Re: How Many Here Truly Understand the Difference Among the QuadCurve EQ Types...
2015/06/04 00:52:19
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Ah I'm with you there. Though I have used them, I can see the value in that. It hadn't crossed my mind. User presets make more sense to me than factory. If I play the same guitar with the same mic and in the same room all the time. Or for those working with other musicians regularly, to set up and be ready, that's cool. Then it's just adjusting to the mix. But that would be the normal process anyway I guess, balance the sound, clean it up, balance to a mix. I don't tend to use factory presets for anything really. If there was a 'global fx off' option on a synth, I'd use that when running through patches, and is usually the first thing I turn of to actually hear the synth.
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