Sixfinger
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 890
- Joined: 2007/09/22 07:55:26
- Location: Branson MO
- Status: offline
What would you use to record a Grand Piano
I may have a gig recording a solo piano, the only condenser mics I have two of is pair of AKG Perception 170
I have a Neumann TLM 193 and a 103
a Rodes NTG 3 shotgun mic, a Shure SM81
I don't mind buying as long as the mics are useful for other things....
so expanding the palette in a way that will also serve well on a Piano is the advice I'm seeking.
Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies http://lionfeather.com
|
rumleymusic
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1533
- Joined: 2006/08/23 18:03:05
- Location: California
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/15 21:23:32
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby TheMaartian 2015/06/15 21:56:34
What kind of music? The options are quite vast. To get the ball rolling. For Classical, the most popular piano mics are the DPA 4006, the Schoeps MK2, and the Neumann M50. All small diaphragm omnis used in a spaced pair. I use a Josephson C617set pair for mains and Sennheiser MKH8040's or TLM 107's for spot mics. A common approach is to use 3 pairs of mics. A slightly distant pair on tall stands in front, spaced a few feet apart, a "main" pair slightly forward off the tail of the piano a few feet back, and a couple spots wherever you want to stick them. For pop music, the AKG C414, the AT4050, and any Neumann large diaphragm mics are classic. The TLM193 is a great mic, basically a cardioid version of the 170, and would work well if you had a second one. A good, open sounding stereo ribbon is also fantastic like the AEA R88 if you like mellow.
post edited by rumleymusic - 2015/06/15 21:39:08
|
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2774
- Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
- Location: Flagstaff, AZ
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/15 22:00:58
(permalink)
FWIW, here's a screen capture of the mic'ing of the grand piano in Addictive Keys. 
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/15 22:10:54
(permalink)
So much depends on your situation. I have never mic'd one myself, but have read different variations with the top opened which a condenser should capture. An interesting tid bit I caught was a guy who used a piezoelectric mic (rather cheap) to also record a channel of the body resonance inside the body (I *believe* he said he mounted it directly to the soundboard with a temporary adhesive, but do not recall "what" now). Attaching such a mic is far more critical than using one though; that "adhesive" is a big deal for such a thing.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
Sixfinger
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 890
- Joined: 2007/09/22 07:55:26
- Location: Branson MO
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/16 02:56:48
(permalink)
Daniel, Thanks for the serious input!
Mr Maartian, thanks for the laugh. And Mettelus, I probably shouldn't bring the construction adhesive.
To start with I just got a pair of Audix scx25a off ebay for the price of one. Though I've never used an Omni mic I can see in my mind how a pair of those would be ideal. I'll be looking for something more affordable, maybe I'll get lucky again.
As for style, he wants to go through a number of styles.. making a demo of his playing essentially. I can see the options are vast, but I think the fun will be vast as well.
Any thoughts on those Audix mics I grabbed?
Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies http://lionfeather.com
|
synkrotron
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5263
- Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
- Location: Warrington, UK
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/16 03:06:51
(permalink)
I can't play piano, but if I had cash coming out of my ears, I would have one for sure  Just sayin LOL As for mic'ing one up, I'd have used a pair of condenser mics... So don't listen to me haha That picture posted by The Maartian almost made me laugh out loud
http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | SONAR Platinum ∞ FFS| Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
|
Karyn
Ma-Ma
- Total Posts : 9200
- Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
- Location: Lincoln, England.
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/16 07:31:04
(permalink)
This is a great resource from Shure. It explains different mic types, how to choose them, and how to use them for different instruments. Includes a section on recording pianos.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
|
Sixfinger
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 890
- Joined: 2007/09/22 07:55:26
- Location: Branson MO
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/16 08:34:10
(permalink)
Thanks Karyn, I agree this is a great resource.
Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies http://lionfeather.com
|
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2774
- Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
- Location: Flagstaff, AZ
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/16 11:12:46
(permalink)
synkrotron
That picture posted by The Maartian almost made me laugh out loud
I like the way your lips move when you say "overkill". 
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
|
synkrotron
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5263
- Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
- Location: Warrington, UK
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/16 11:19:21
(permalink)
TheMaartian
I like the way your lips move when you say "overkill".
Dammit! I didn't think you'd notice 
http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | SONAR Platinum ∞ FFS| Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
|
jeff oliver
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 122
- Joined: 2015/01/20 03:37:40
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/23 17:39:55
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby TheMaartian 2015/06/23 19:11:12
If I were you I'd use what I got. I use to fuss over which mic for this and that until a ran across some useful info. about the subject. Your preamp is more important than the mic in most cases. Mic placement is second to the preamp. The last thing is the mic itself. You already have good mics, all of them! Use your ears to see where to place them and the recording will be great!
post edited by jeff oliver - 2015/06/23 17:47:58
|
wst3
Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1979
- Joined: 2003/11/04 10:28:11
- Location: Pottstown, PA 19464
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/24 13:47:29
(permalink)
Best recording of a grand piano I ever made was a pair of TLM-193s in a very nice sounding room.
Best recording of a grand piano I ever worked with was made with the Earthworks PianoMic.
Both of these were for an exposed piano in a jazz setting, so that's a pretty specific sound. I liked the Earthworks recording better, and I've tried to get a similar result using other Earthworks microphones, but there is some trickery going on with that PianoMic.
I happen to like a stereo recording of a piano, but if you can live with something other than stereo consider using just the TLM-193. My tastes only, but I think the TLM-103 would be awfully brash... unless that's what you are shooting for...
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/24 14:49:14
(permalink)
As per Bill's post the TLM 193 is very capable. I would be very keen to ensure stereo recording. The piano just sounds better to me in that mode.
You could either purchase another TLM 193 or a nice figure 8 microphone from another maker like Rode. With the figure 8 you could do stereo recordings in M/S with the TLM 193 and also use the figure 8 mic in other studio situations. The deep null on the side of a figure 8 can very useful in a studio recording situation.
Just some ideas.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
wst3
Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1979
- Joined: 2003/11/04 10:28:11
- Location: Pottstown, PA 19464
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/24 21:24:25
(permalink)
not exactly budget friendly, but the TLM-67 is a wonderful match for the TLM-193 if you want to do Mid-Side recording, not sure how the pair would work in any X/Y configuration. However, I have used mis-matched microphone pairs for conventional stereo recording when I wanted an exaggerated stereo image. So who know?
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
|
Sixfinger
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 890
- Joined: 2007/09/22 07:55:26
- Location: Branson MO
- Status: offline
Re: What would you use to record a Grand Piano
2015/06/24 21:55:29
(permalink)
Nice ideas. Now that I have a pair of Audix scx25a, what do you think of them either in xy or spaced pair the the TLM 193 as kind of a center overhead? I really need to read up on mid side recording having never tried it. Or is my suggestion kind of the same thing?
Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies http://lionfeather.com
|