Using Reverb sends with Groups

I personally work with just one reverb instance for a whole song.
 
I'm not using as many groups as you, but one, or four, it's generally the same, to me anyway 
 
I create a bus for reverb only (I might stick some EQ on there too perhaps).
 
I then generally create a track for each element, say pads, bass, synth lead, guitar etc. and each of those will have its output set to the master bus, with a send to the reverb bus (post effects bin). I adjust the send levels to taste and the pan to the same as the track pan.
 
If I'm in the mood I will create a drum bus and I'll set up my drum VSTi so that each of its elements (kick, snare, hats etc.) have a track each. Then each of those tracks output to the drum bus, not the master. I adjust the levels of each drum element on their individual track fader, but I set the pan in the drum VSTi.
 
The drum bus outputs to the master bus, with a send to the reverb bus. On the drum bus I will definitely have some EQ and perhaps some compression, but I am currently experimenting with parallel compression, so I have another send from the drum bus to yet another bus purely for compression purposes.
 
 
So, I guess the short answer is, yes, you can, in my opinion, have just one reverb for a whole project.
 
 
I'm sure many will disagree 
 
cheers
 
andy

bitflipper
But it also helps create the illusion that all the instruments are being played in the same space.

Hi Dave, yeah, this is the main reason I just have the one reverb nowadays.
 
I should have mentioned that I set the reverb plug to an all wet setting, so that none of the dry signal gets through to the master bus from the reverb bus. Does anyone else do this? Or is it just me being a bit strange. It's not something I read somewhere... I just reasoned, in my own head, that if there is already a dry signal going directly to the master bus, why route any more through?

I too usually stick with one or two reverb buses; typically one for vocals and another for everything else.  I don't usually create sends from the instrument buses (vox, guitars, drums, etc.), only from individual tracks.
 
I think the vast majority of reverbs are set up as 100% wet effects on an effects bus, but QL Spaces in particular is designed to be an insert effect, and I've found that it does actually work better that way.  That one I'll toss on an instrument/vox bus.

If you use a buss, then you are sort of obliged to put the effect in that buss's bin. 
Say you have 4 guitar parts that you send to a guitar buss. 
If you put the reverb on each track, then you turn the guitar bus down you'll end up with a wetter reverb because you are not turning down the amount coming from each track.  Try muting the Guitar buss.. see.. you still hear the wet reverb. So the reverb would have to go on the buss to behave as expected.
 
I've always stayed with using one reverb  for vocals and guitars etc. 
But I often use a "room" reverb on snare and toms. 

I dunno... Might be a case of six and two threes...
 
I agree, that you can take the drum bus right down, and still hear reverb of the drums, which sounds a bit weird I guess. I don't think I have ever had a situation where I have removed drums from a song via a drum bus fader though, so this situation wouldn't exist for me personally.
 
For me, at least, just the one reverb instance is my preferred method because if I tweak its settings, I haven't got to remember to tweak any other instances of the same reverb elsewhere.
 
As ever... There's more than one way of skinning the proverbial cat 
 
I look forward to more input from our resident experts (which I am not, I hasten to add...)

Mantofini
Isn't this solved with the "Post" button for the send?

 
haha! Yeah... I've just double checked my current project and the reverb send from the drum bus is indeed post fader 
 
What a wally 
 
 

ULTRABRA
@Mantofini  Well, I always anyway use post-fader.   It doesn't solve my query, because if I lower the fader on the group bus, its not connected to the reverb, so it doesn't lower the reverb amount.  Its the instrument itself (eg single drum piece) that is connected to the reverb, not the Group bus.
 
@synkotron   You SHOULD be using post-fader ... that's the default, and for most purposes is what people will need.  And above, when I mentioned bringing the Drums Bus down completely, I said that just to make the point that I would still hear the reverb of the drums instruments.    Because changing the volume of the drums bus fader is not affecting the reverb at all.  
 
Probably, I am not explaining myself very well :-)  
 
But, in conclusion, how I see it is, if I'm bussing instruments to Groups, and those instruments require reverb, then I need to have one instance of my reverb per Group.  I send all my drum pieces to the Drum Reverb, pads/strings to Pads/Strings Reverb etc, and those reverbs output is set to be their relevant group.  Then the fader on each Group will control overall volume of instruments sent there, AND their reverb proportinately.
 
 

For it to work, you would need to route all of your drum tracks through the bus. The send then goes from the drum bus to the reverb bus. In other words, you would mix you drum kit into the bus to get the balance you want, then you add a send to set an overall ambience for the kit. If the send is post-fader, lowering the drum bus fader would decrease the amount of drums in the reverb bus.
 
Is there a specific reason you want sends from the individual kit pieces and not the overall kit?

bluzdog
I set the output of all of the drums, the parallel drum compression bus (if I use one) and the drums reverb bus to the drum bus. Then add sends from the drum tracks to the drum reverb bus. Once you the drums levels are set the overall balance of the drums (including the reverb and the parallel bus) won't change by bringing the drum bus up or down. I usually have at least two reverbs going. I always use a dedicated drum reverb, if I want it to sound similar to the other reverb(s) I use the same plug-in with similar settings.
 
Rocky

This! :)

I do mostly orchestral tracks and use on reverb for each section (strings, brass, etc.). I normally use QL Spaces and it has separate reverbs for each orchestra section. They are recorded in the same space but at different locations to theoretically provide the right depth. Seems to work for me.

ULTRABRA
Hei Dave - so you make a bus for each section strings, brass etc, and then add Spaces as an insert on each section?   Or as a send so that each instrument going to that section can have its own level of the reverb?

I'll use strings as an example. I create an effects bus called String Effects and add an instance of QL Spaces on the bus. In Spaces I choose a hall preset bank and load the strings patch in the preset bank (there are separate patches for each orchestra section). I have an instance of Play for each string section (1st and 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses). Each of those instances has a send set to the String Effects bus with the same output level. I do the same for Brass, where each instance of Play that is loaded with a brass section goes to a Brass effects bus loaded with the brass reverb patch, and so on. Since the presets in Spaces are based on the real-world locations of the different sections in the same hall, I can get a consistent reverb sound but with the real-world differences for each section. It is almost too easy to do.
 
As far as the levels go, because of the way that Hollywood strings is recorded, I set the send level for each string section the same. Other sections like brass and woodwinds are also set to the same send level as the strings. I might tweak the levels of an individual section for effect. Perhaps I want the trumpets to sound like they are further away for some reason. I'll increase the reverb level, decrease the dry output to the Master bus and add modulation to the trumpets to make them sound if they are playing louder but are further away. Adding modulation in this case changes the timbre to add more of the brass "buzz" you get at high volume levels.

ULTRABRA
 why do you not just add the Spaces as an insert to the strings bus?

 
You can pan the sends for each track as well as adjust levels for side to side and front to back placement in the mix.
 
Rocky

bluzdog

ULTRABRA
 why do you not just add the Spaces as an insert to the strings bus?

 
You can pan the sends for each track as well as adjust levels for side to side and front to back placement in the mix.
 
Rocky

Thanks Rocky.That's exactly why.