Base SPLAT issue - unintended slider moving with Behringer X32 - X3 does not act this way

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Guitarmech111
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2015/07/02 21:16:21 (permalink)

Base SPLAT issue - unintended slider moving with Behringer X32 - X3 does not act this way

I have the outputs of SONAR going to the X32 via USB. Everything plays back fine. There is an issue where one of the bus sliders is automagically moving down about 20db at a certain point in the project. I deleted all tracks and buses except for the master bus. Still having an issue with the slider pulling down.
 
I selected all tracks prior and viewed the event list and nothing showed at the time the fader gets pulled down.
 
SONAR is using the X32 card for 32 channels of input and output and midi.
 
X32 Channels 3&4 have Superior Drummer 2 track output assigned to them
 
The DCA group 1 is the slider at issue and only has the output of track 3&4 - Superior Drummer 2 assigned to it.
 
After deleting all the tracks, nothing is assigned to the tracks feeding the DCA group1 channel. When pressing playback, the slider still pulls at the same spot.
 
I have no tracks in the project, no events at all, but this thing still auto adjusts.
 
Anyone have any ideas?
post edited by Guitarmech111 - 2015/07/03 08:47:12

Peace,
Conley Shepherd
Joyful Noise Productions
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/02 21:57:59 (permalink)
    I was able to determine that something is transmitting midi channel 1 that moves the X32 fader.

    I am not sure what it is since there is nothing using that midi channel one in my project that I can tell. No synths or anything. The drums are on channel 11. The only other midi channel is 9 for some synths.

    The X32 midi implementation says that faders midi channel is 1 only. When I disable the fader CC option in the X32, the slider goes back to normal behavior.
     
    Really weird

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    #2
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/02 22:12:25 (permalink)
    I guess I will have to figure out what SPLAT is transmitting on midi chan 1 in this project.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    #3
    scook
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/02 22:14:02 (permalink)
    Review the plug-ins in the synth rack. Maybe some of them have "Enable MIDI Output" checked.
    #4
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/02 22:28:53 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply.
    I misread the event view. I mistook track for midi channel. I should really use my glasses with that small print. It seems that ALL events are on CH1 - Now I need to figure out how to change all the midi events from CH1... I remember being able to do it with CAL. Is there a better way to do it in the new and improved SPLAT?

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    scook
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/02 22:32:55 (permalink)
    Select all the clips/tracks to change and set the channel in the Event Inspector module in the Control Bar
    #6
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/02 22:43:30 (permalink)
    there are only 3 midi tracks in the project. I changed them all to their own midi channel, not that it really matters since the midi clips are assigned to the synths I guess. I changed each synth event to CH3, CH5 and CH7 for the entire length of the tracks using the event inspector.
     
    I then selected all for the length of the project and changed all midi events to ch8. Still no Bueno.

    There is something hidden in the project that gets translated to midi ch1 and dorks with the slider. I tried to copy all of the project to another new project and I got some weird results with fader movement too.
     
    Pretty frustrated right about now. I can disable the fader movement controller stuff on the X32, but I was hoping to get them working like I wanted them to eventually.
     
    the funny thing is that when all tracks and synths are deleted, playback still produces that issue with the slider.
    post edited by Guitarmech111 - 2015/07/02 22:56:54

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Without a mess, there is no message
    #7
    OldTimerNewComer
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/03 02:39:55 (permalink)
    Check the Master bus for volume or some other type of automation.
    Click the drop-down menu in the track view and select "Automation".
    Or you could CTRL-select all tracks and then choose automation to see
    if they are any envelopes on any track.
     
    Good Luck
    Mel

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    #8
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/03 07:49:05 (permalink)
    Thanks Mel, That didn't work. I know there is automation, but it does not show up anywhere. With all tracks and busses removed, SONAR still plays some type of midi controls causing my slider to move. Really irritating.
     
    I suppose tech support is off for a holiday too... I hate not know what is causing this problem. It is definitely a SONAR issue somewhere.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/03 08:01:45 (permalink)
    ok, I started a new project with a SPLAT default template that has zero tracks. Something is wrong with SPLAT. The sliders move without any tracks in a default project. I am not sure if this is due to the recent update or not. I am going to go back to the last release and see if that changes anything. This looks to be more and more SONAR and not project related.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/03 08:14:41 (permalink)
    I am going to rollback each SPLAT update and see if this issue goes away for SPLAT. X3 does not exhibit this issue. Surely something happened between products to cause this irritation.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/03 08:39:54 (permalink)
    Rollback to base SPLAT exhibits this issue. Really freakin irritating now. Looks like I am going to have to use X3 for any work with my X32 to control the automation weirdness. Is there an issue with Mackie control support with SPLAT? Could that be the reason? Again, everything works fine in X3. This issue is directly related to SPLAT base and beyond...

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/07/03 09:10:42 (permalink)
    reported to support - CWBRN-33913
    post edited by Guitarmech111 - 2015/07/03 10:27:31

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/05 07:36:44 (permalink)
    not a single peep from TS about this issue and it is frustrating.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    tenfoot
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/05 12:29:49 (permalink)
    Do you have the DAW remote setting activated on the X32? Try switching that off.

    Bruce.
     
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/05 13:01:24 (permalink)
    yeah, I wanted to have the X32 control functions within SONAR.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/05 13:06:27 (permalink)
    Try running sonar as admin, and try not running it as admin. Make sure windows update is up to date.

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    petec
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/05 13:31:03 (permalink)
    Had similar weird happenings to the Track 1, the Master fader and the Main (Left Only) fader recently.
    Suddenly dropping to a low level. Refuses to stay back at zero.
    Only seem to have noticed this with latest update (H). Though could not be certain.
    Tried closing and reloading Sonar. Sometimes solves prob for a while.
    Using Mackie Control with Sonar.
    Monitoring it before roll-back.
    #18
    tenfoot
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/05 13:42:00 (permalink)
    Have you tried unchecking the zero all controllers on stop function in Sonar? Outside chance but worth a try.

    Bruce.
     
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    petec
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/07 11:32:31 (permalink)
    Thanks tenfoot for the suggestion.
     
    I did try it, and although I cannot say with certainty it was the cause/solution, I have not had a repeat of the problem in the last 24hrs.

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    tenfoot
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/07 11:36:18 (permalink)
    Cool petec - fingers crossed it was:)

    Bruce.
     
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    bitman
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/07 15:26:07 (permalink)
    Turn off the automation read for the offending track as a test?
    #22
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/07 20:48:35 (permalink)
    My issue happens with no populated tracks in the project. Just press play and it happens. Post #10 outlines this.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    tenfoot
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/07 23:36:52 (permalink)
    Guitarmech111
    My issue happens with no populated tracks in the project. Just press play and it happens. Post #10 outlines this.



    In the empty project did you try disabling zero all controllers on stop and  the controller searchback function? If memory serves they are under the preferences/project menu in advanced view.

    Bruce.
     
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    #24
    azslow3
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/08 06:27:01 (permalink)
    Guitarmech111
    My issue happens with no populated tracks in the project. Just press play and it happens. Post #10 outlines this.

    You should localize problematic component. So:
    1) remove Mackie Control Surface from Sonar configuration, remove X32 MIDI from Sonar Configuration. Do you still see the effect? If not, that has nothing to do with Sonar (do you have something connected to X32 MIDI input? do you use some MIDI translator?)
    2) add X32 MIDI To Sonar Configuration. Do not add Control Surface yet. Restart Sonar (!), create new test project. Do you see the effect? If yes, this MIDI is implicitly used as output for something. We should find where and why.
    3) if the effect is there only when you have Mackie Control Surface configured, what exactly is "the movement"? The source is open, I can have a look what can trigger it.

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    #25
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/08 12:45:06 (permalink)
    Mackie control is the interface to control the DAW for the X32. The midi is setup correctly via a USB interface from the X32. The midi is already defined to SONAR.
     
    As far as restarting new project, step #10 was a brand new project with everything correctly setup. 
     
    What is the reasoning for removing the Mackie control instance from SONAR and if no problems, then no SONAR issue? Don't quite understand that logic. Can you please elaborate?

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    azslow3
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/08 14:06:40 (permalink)
    Guitarmech111
    What is the reasoning for removing the Mackie control instance from SONAR and if no problems, then no SONAR issue? Don't quite understand that logic. Can you please elaborate?

    I just try to help you find problematic component. It can be in Sonar (most probable in your configuration settings), in Control Surface plug-in (less probable, but who knows) or outside Sonar (probable if you have some other MIDI equipment and/or software).
     
    All tests I have asked your to make take less time then typing that reply. But if you think it make no sense, I stop my attempt here and will no longer bother you.

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    #27
    Guitarmech111
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/08 14:23:59 (permalink)
    I asked you to elaborate so I can understand. I am open to learn something new. Please do not take offense. 
     
    There are no additional midi devices in play here, just the X32. No other outboard equipment. The X32 is the sound and midi interface. The environment is pretty isolated to SONAR and the X32. 
     
    edit - I think I know where some of the confusion is coming. The X32 uses the Mackie protocol for the setup in SONAR. The X32 emulates the Mackie device. 
    post edited by Guitarmech111 - 2015/09/08 14:34:10

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    #28
    azslow3
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/08 19:03:34 (permalink)
    Guitarmech111
    I asked you to elaborate so I can understand. I am open to learn something new. Please do not take offense. 

    I am not offensive, I simply can not explain the reason for the tests in one post. It will be long even in my native language and hard to understand in my English
     

    There are no additional midi devices in play here, just the X32. No other outboard equipment. The X32 is the sound and midi interface. The environment is pretty isolated to SONAR and the X32. 

    That excludes 1/3 from possible origins I have asked you to do the test (1)
     

    edit - I think I know where some of the confusion is coming. The X32 uses the Mackie protocol for the setup in SONAR. The X32 emulates the Mackie device.

    No confusion here, at least on my side. I have developed universal CS Plug-in and LC preset which close to completely imitate MCU plug-in from CakeWalk (but with working EQ and ACT mode). In case after all 3 tests we conclude the problem is somehow MCU plug-in related (so, no movements without MCU plug-in configured) next step can be an attempt to reproduce the problem with my plug-in (I can modify the preset so you can see why it moves the fader, that in turn can identify the problem as really Sonar internal). When my plug-in produce no movements while the original does, I can try to understand from where it comes (I know the source code, I have used its logic to create my preset).
     
    It could be simpler in case some other user already new the reason or CW has helped you. Note that CW normally starts troubleshooting sending like 10 links to MS RunTime installers, without any explanation why you should reinstall all of them. It took me like an hour to do this, while I was sure that is not going to help. I still have done that because I was asked to do so. What I have asked you will take less then 5 minutes and we are still at test (1)...

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    #29
    tenfoot
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    Re: Magical slider moving in SPLAT with Behringer X32 - Need help please 2015/09/08 22:25:56 (permalink)
    I use Azslow3's plugin - dude knows his stuff on remote issues. He's the best help you could get. If it was my issue I would certainly do the tests before he moves on. Just sayin:)

    Bruce.
     
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    #30
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