Metronome countoff for a new tempo change

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mckool
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2015/07/03 09:47:21 (permalink)

Metronome countoff for a new tempo change

Hello,
 
I have a song where the tempo suddenly changes from 160 to 145 then back to 160. The tempo changes exactly on the 1st beat of that measure. When I was recording that section the metronome count off stayed at 160 even though we were positioned on the first beat of the measure. This makes it very difficult to play the parts well. In other words, it would count off at 160 and then start playing at 145.
Is there a way to make the metronome count off the correct tempo for that section?
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    DeeringAmps
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/03 10:14:18 (permalink)
    Lets assume the tempo change is at measure 100.
    What happens if you move the tempo change back one click (last click of measure 99 beat 4).
    Now Sonar "sees" the tempo as 145 when the count in starts.
    Evidently right now Sonar does not "see" the 145 until after the count in.
    Haven't tested myself, but that's how I would do it.
    Or you could set your start marker at 100:01:001.
    Same thing I think, Sonar will have already recognized the change in tempo.
     
    T
     

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    #2
    mckool
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/03 10:22:36 (permalink)
    I tried that. I started just a fraction in the measure of the 145 tempo. It still wants to count in the old tempo. I think I found a workaround: I change the overall tempo of the song to the tempo of the section and then change it back when I'm done recording that section. This seems like either a glitch with my session or a bad design by Cakewalk. If you have a section with a new tempo and you need to punch in then the count off should match the section you are recording. I checked preferences to see if there was a way to tell it to take the upcoming tempo (just a shot in the dark) but there is no such setting.
    #3
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/03 10:40:50 (permalink)
    I had this once and got around it by manually placing a few midi beats where I thought the count-off should start.
     
    Of course they were nowhere near the gridlines and I had to nudge them around a bit, but it worked.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/03 12:46:52 (permalink)
    I just did quick tests in both X3 and Foxboro with big tempo changes entered every two measures for several measures. Starting recording with the Now time at or after a tempo change always counted in at the expected tempo.
     
    Do you also have different meters in the project?  I didn't check that, and recall that there have been issues around count-in with mixed meters, though I also seem to recall that was fixed a while back.
     
     

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/03 15:22:21 (permalink)
    Yes, my example had meter changes and tempo changes at the same point

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    mckool
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/04 11:10:03 (permalink)
    So, if you had a tempo of 160 and then on measure 10 you changed it to 145 then when you set the start at that measure for recording it would count off at 145?
     
    I cannot get it to do that no matter what I do. Weird.
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    DeeringAmps
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 08:56:43 (permalink)
    I set three markers with tempo changes, right on beat 1:000. 75bpm 125 and 225.
    Sonar counted in at the new tempo each time.
    So yes, if I change the tempo at 10:01:000, Sonar counts in at 145 if I start the project at measure 10.
    Just for S&G I tested with tempo changes at 9:04:239 (160) and 10:01:000 (145).
    Counts in just fine at both; obviously it counts in fast, then the metronome slows down immediately if I start at
    9:04:239 as would be expected.
    HTH
    T
    post edited by DeeringAmps - 2015/07/05 09:12:13

    Tom Deering
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    Teds_Studio
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 09:16:22 (permalink)
    I have never used the metronome.  I always just use a click track using midi drums (Superior Drummer in my instance).  You may have to do a little more editing once the tracks are done but editing is easy.
     
    This way the click is always at the right tempo even right at the beginning of a tempo change.  I know different people use different workflows...but this is what works for me :) .

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    DeeringAmps
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 09:23:32 (permalink)
    Ted, I do the same thing as you (I can't play to a metronome click track).
    The OP needs a count in at 145 right after the section at 160.
    He needs to make sure the tempo change and marker are spot on at measure x beat 1:000.
    brundlefly and I have both verified that Sonar is recognizing the changes properly on our end.
     
    T
     

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    mckool
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 10:35:06 (permalink)
    Thanks folks. I do have the marker right at beat 1:000 on the measure (snap to grid)
     
    I typically use the metronome and have 2 measure count off. I may try the suggestion to use a drum plugin for the click if that helps. From all of the replies, I'm starting to wonder if my cakewalk installation is glitched. I watch the tempo say 160 even if I click on the measure that is 145. It changes to 145 a split second after I press start so I think that is the issue.
     
    Also, I used to be able to use the "insert a tempo change" at a marker and now any time I select that function, it changes the entire song tempo. Now, the only way I can enter a tempo change without affecting the rest of the song is to use the "insert a series of tempo changes" function.
     
    I think my Cakewalk has turned screwy.
     
    Thanks again for everyone's feedback!
     
    David
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 10:54:22 (permalink)
    mckool
    I watch the tempo say 160 even if I click on the measure that is 145. It changes to 145 a split second after I press start so I think that is the issue.

     
    I'm thinking maybe your interface driver is misreporting sample position to SONAR. I don't know of any preference setting that affect this, but you might try renaming your AUD.INI file and letting SONAR build a new on. 
     
    What version of SONAR is this BTW? 
     
    Also, I used to be able to use the "insert a tempo change" at a marker and now any time I select that function, it changes the entire song tempo.

     
    Make sure to choose the "Insert New Tempo" option in the dialogue instead of "Change Most Recent".




    post edited by brundlefly - 2015/07/05 11:00:44

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    mckool
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 11:00:25 (permalink)
    I have sonar platinum. Thanks for the suggestions. I am out shopping at the moment but I will try these later today.
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    DeeringAmps
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    Re: Metronome countoff for a new tempo change 2015/07/05 13:09:52 (permalink)
    Open up the "markers" veiw and "tempo" view and verify both are spot on at the right spot.
    If both are right then brundlefly has to be right about the interface not reporting correctly.
    Letting Sonar rebuild the aud.ini file never hurts.
     
    T

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