Doodling/drawing to kickstart creativity and facilitate thinking

I always remember to wipe and flush after I doodle. 
 
(Damn nice job on that dog!)

synkrotron
Nice work sharke, seriously 
 
I wish I could draw like that... Like you, in my teens I used to sketch stuff, in pencil or even a biro, but it was always abstract stuff. As soon as I tried to draw anything proper it just looked flat, with no depth at all. So eventually I gave up. It wasn't a concious decision to top doodling... I just didn't bother any more, and I can't even remember the last time I deliberately sat down to draw something.
 
Well, outside of work anyway... I'm a mechanical designer (specialising in chemical plant piping) and there's always times when it's sometimes quicker to sketch an outline idea on a bit of paper, but everything else is done on CAD software. And those sketches, although enough to convey an idea, are bloomin terrible.
 
 

I think one of the keys to drawing is to completely detach yourself from the subject and see it as nothing more than a collection of lines and shapes. Sounds obvious but it makes all the difference to think like this, and when you do, the subject matter becomes irrelevant. You could be drawing a battleship, a dog, a hand whisk or a fire hydrant - to the artist it's just a bunch of lines and tones. Draw exactly what you see, look for "negative space" in between things and draw those. The key to reproducing depth is to squint the eyes, it allows you to see shapes in the shading which are like territories on a map. Part of the trick with any kind of art is in knowing what to leave out, and this is what separates the beginner from the master. I really bit off more than I could chew with that dog drawing because I was trying to put too much detail into the shading - a master could take that same photo and convey a much more believable sense of depth and shape with just a few scribbles. This is what really amazes me about great artists, that they can convey so much with so little. I try doing the same thing and fail miserably, this what I'm going to try and improve. And there are tricks and techniques to it, as I'm finding out from books. 
 
Starting to draw has made me appreciate the art of the masters so much more. I've been blown away by the drawings of Edgar Degas, and also of Kathe Kollwitz, whose drawings are extremely miserable and depressing but at the same time insanely beautiful. 
 
Watching masters at work is a great inspiration and we are so lucky to have access to so many excellent YouTube videos of artists at work. I love this guy's YouTube channel: 
 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaapxaQKJFJ6XC56CHgeTzw
 
He's like the Mexican Bob Ross, his videos are a delight to watch and he's funny too. Really great to see such incredible pieces of art come together in front of you. 

I'm so envious of people that can draw or paint. I can barely scribble my name. The computer age saved me and gave me the ability to write and keep legible notes, albeit with typos.

You've got some mad skills there sharke.

I guess that means you could draw a straight banana, if you wanted to...

Hi,
 
We're on about 2 different things.
 
You are studying this analytically, and trying to use this and that as your proof.
 
I'm telling you there is more to "doodling" than you think and I can show you the pictorial representation of an artist I worked with here in Vancouver.
 
You can create something ... out of what appears to be "nothing", and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the past, present or future.
 
ALL I did, same as in theater and film acting exercises, is work slowly and try to "define" details, until such a time as the person can "see" inwardly enough to be able to describe something. IN GENERAL, simply doodling abstractly, is but the first step into attempting to define something you have and know, but can not describe. However, differently you "doodle" is all the same thing ... and sometimes, it clicks, but mostly it DOESN'T, because all you call it is "doodling" and by association it is not important and valuable.
 
So, let me ask you ... when was the last time you actually doodled with your instrument ... and I don't mean "practice"?
 
There is a difference.
 
I can show you how this is done with an artist, and it will blow your mind ... but if you are stuck on an idea already, nothing I can say will ever get through, because you have already shut off the intuitive side and what it can (possibly) bring you ... sometimes, you have no idea what it is ... and when you LIMIT it to a hand, or a face, or a body, you are NOT HELPING the person find out what their "DOODLING" is all about!
 
And this is the biggest crying shame when trying to teach youngsters music ... guess what you take out? It's called ... "The City of Lost Children" ...

Moshkito you appear to be overthinking this and going off on a tangent. Personally I'm shocked!

Here, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/The...ferently/dp/1591847036

sharke
Moshkito you appear to be overthinking this and going off on a tangent. Personally I'm shocked!

Here, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/The...ferently/dp/1591847036

There is NOT an ounce of thinking in what I wrote. It's all experiential and has been done. Musicians are the only ones that are afraid to try different processes of rehearsing and doing things, and experimenting.  Groups like King Crimson, use procedures from Gurdgieff for their rehearsal techniques and designs. So does Return to Forever, though they might not call it that at all.
 
Again, you guys don't believe anyone can help ... is the only problem! And there is, out there, some serious magic, that many do not believe in, because Harry Potter is safe and your covers are SAFER!
 
Why is it that your respect meter will say that something at Amazon is good, and what I wrote is not? You didn't even grok it enough to discuss it, which suggests you did not even read it!
 
Have you looked at the material and discussion in depth, enough, to actually see if there is something or not? You really think I would be writing all this and it is all fantasy, and that I did not live through it? There's more that I have forgotten, than I can tell you at all!
 
AND I HAVE OVER 200 PICTURES TO PROVE IT! Sadly, the family does not like the "work" and I can not reproduce it ... but I can show it to folks ... if they are interested. But with gents like you not interested, it's really hard to not say something rude, because I do not like to be rude for the sake of being rude. You or anyone else here do not deserve that! But I am automatically wrong, and the Amazon link is more important, because you do not understand know the difference, when it is being explained right there to you ... and you can not visualize it!
 
Sorry ...
 
And it ALL starts with a scratch that looks stupid! But your "values" automatically condemn it!

craigb

 

 

Reminds me of a cartoon on the Italian film "Allegro Non Troppo" where the cartoon catches on fire and the little character in it, is trying to get out of the fire and can't. Beautiful cartoon, though sad.
 
ALLEGRO NON TROPPO, by the way, is fabulous and a bit more "adult" than Disney's version, but it is funny, and has a great version of the Bolero (Ravel). I've been trying to get the DVD since my Video of it, is finally busted up!
 
"I never thought any of that music was stupid! And sometimes, that's the difference!"
Carl Stalling

Moshkito
There is NOT an ounce of thinking in what I wrote.

What more did you need to know Sharke? 

sharke
Maybe I didn't watch enough Sesame Street as a kid....

So I'm guessing you need more H. R. Pufnstuf and Fraggle Rock then too! 

sharke

craigb

Moshkito
There is NOT an ounce of thinking in what I wrote.

What more did you need to know Sharke? 

I honestly don't know because the subject has gotten very confusing! I started off making a simple point about doodling being good for creativity but apparently I don't know anything and it's actually so complicated that I don't have a hope in hell of understanding it. Maybe I didn't watch enough Sesame Street as a kid....

And I tried to tell you that doodling can be done a thousand different ways, with one exception ... you could only go back to your link, and not find/see that someone else had an interesting experience, that was also considered "doodling", except that we ended up with something out of it, after a year or two and more than 200 hours of meditations on tape! Yeah ... it became fast later, but the start was laborious and slow, but the moments of clarity and beauty ... too good to be true.
 
You have to believe, more than just a "doodle" ... and in fact, think that ANY doodle, is not just a doodle!
 
And this is something that too many musicians are not willing to risk and learn from!

The English language is so much fun, isn't it?  The following sentences are actually grammatically correct:
 
Anyone who feels that if so many more students whom we haven’t actually admitted are sitting in on the course than ones we have that the room had to be changed, then probably auditors will have to be excluded, is likely to agree that the curriculum needs revision.
 
This exceeding trifling witling, considering ranting criticizing concerning adopting fitting wording being exhibiting transcending learning, was displaying, notwithstanding ridiculing, surpassing boasting swelling reasoning, respecting correcting erring writing, and touching detecting deceiving arguing during debating.
 
BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO.

sharke ... I went back and read it, and I still don't understand what you were on about. I think you have to keep things a lot simpler for the likes of me to understand. You write very much in a "train of thought" style which touches upon a lot of things and experiences which make perfect sense to you because they're already in your head as solid things and experiences, but which sound vague and unconnected to me. I don't mean to be rude, just being plainly honest! If your point was that doodling also applies to musicians, well I understand that, and would have understood perfectly well if you'd said it like that.

 
The whole experience, is not a minute long, is part of the problem. In a way, yeah, I did not condense it enough to make it clearer for you or anyone else.
 
Essentially, we recorded many meditations and experiences, until we figured out some sort of this or that or this or that, and then undertook whatever course, it made sense to use, or work with.
 
It's never perfect!
 
But it started with "doodling", or in our case, something much easier ... a scratch of a line on a blank piece of paper ... and that line becomes the most important part of the whole thing, but you don't see that, or understand that until so far out there later, that you can, easily, lose a sense of perspective RESPECTIVE to time.
 

moshkiaeYou guys are all musicians ... but suggesting a try on this and that ... won't go anywhere, because none of you will stand up, try it (with honest intents) and come back and say ... this is what I felt ... even if it was stupid ... which would tell you your concentration is not on what you are doing, but comparing it to what you know ... you're making an assumption that you know it all with the notes and chords and music!

 

sharke ... which leave me scratching my head (and also wondering if I've just been insulted or not :))

 
No insults required or necessary, and I stated that in the article.
 
I have not had an easy time with "musicians", and surprisingly enough, the ones that are the least professional, as in known and recorded and such, are usually the ones that are the most defensive ... I could have this conversation with Daevid Allen (and did!!!) about creativity and learning, and he even said in his early days on his guitar/glissando/meditation workshops, he did the same thing. He was even surprised that I did psychic things with actors and helped them. And that they worked. But suggesting this to anyone here at the Coffee House, it's like ... he's full of merde anyway, and he's a nobody, and besides, the doodle book is at Amazon, and he would not know anything!
 
I'm a student of the "unknown" and the "unknowable", in case you have not figured it out. AND it does not matter the "medium" because the source is the same ... in simple terms ... YOU ... inside, and the depth is insane, and sometimes, the doodle, is one sidestep that helps you get there ... but when you stop it, because you want a hand, the "doodle" stops being a doodle ... it now has to become a representation of a hand ... and guess what rock'n'roll's main issue is? ... AN IMAGE of something that doesn't exist, and is different in everyone's interpretation ... but the "doodle" has a life, you can not define ... because it is not a "living thing" ... it's an invisible feeling that is a part of you, that you either recognize, or you don't. Your looking around, shows that you are curious ... but now, you need to take the 2nd step ... how far do you want to go?
And guess where most people quit?
 
My inner experiences, have come from not knowing a language and having to be force fed by images to survive. This included foreign films and subtitles, until I figured out they were bad translations ... and eventually I even learned that the translations of my dad's own poetry (even by my older sister!!!) were horrendous and had no flow whatsoever! The "source" was not there, and I learned that when I touched my dad's inert body on that one day in church! That was just a body .. the spirit was gone ... and even things like Gong/soft Machine ... "you can kill my body, but you can't kill me ... taught me the difference between a word and just another rock idiot lyric. The same for literature.
 
And then, I learned to doodle with actors, actresses and by directing and moving a camera! On one of my films the professor (from USC, by the way) even said ... that what I did was an incredible conceptual piece ... and no one in the class came close to one such piece. And I can easily tell you that all I did was color a piece of music (by Kevin Ayers) with a film! In reality, it was what "I Saw" ... nothing more or less, but I got the "visuals totally right!
 
It TEACHES you to use that "inner" feel! It helps so much ... that you end up crying wondering how you missed that as a child!
(Now you know why it hurt when Bapu was not interested in my Hypgnosis picture for an album or promo, for the CHB on their first song! I know, it's not what they thought ... but the feeling was there, and guess what? ... that image is still alive and burning! But he won't understand that side of it at all, because it's a part of me, not him!)
 
It's hard when you "see things" and no one believes you ... in fact, sometimes it's no fun at all! But I know, in my heart of hearts, I have been truthful, and I tried as well as I know how and saw at that moment. It's just a shame I am not working with artists and writers or actors anymore! I've given up, and hearing stuff like this from folks here, makes it worse ... no one gives a ****!
 
Thanks for taking the time Sharke ... it will be remembered and is appreciated!