Helpful ReplyCommodore-64. The good old days?

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KenB123
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2015/07/07 10:44:29 (permalink)

Commodore-64. The good old days?

One of my favorite shows right now on the AMC channel (in it's second season) is "Halt and Catch Fire" (HCF). It's a fictionalized view of the personal computer emergence circa 1983. The Commodore-64 was a major player in a recent episode. Not that this is a new fact, but it made me reminisce while watching the episode that the C64 takes its name from it's 64,536 bytes of RAM. Yea, that is 64k as in kilobytes. Not MB, or GB, or even TB. Anyway, nothing really new. Just a fond memory of what was, and what some considered state-of-the-art personal computing not very long ago.

Broken pencils are pointless.

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bapu
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 10:49:09 (permalink)
We really liked the first season.
 
Got tired of this season after 3 episodes.
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craigb
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:09:05 (permalink)
I remember trying to earn all the money I could to buy one of those (I mean, HOLY CRAP!  64k of memory??!  What would I need that much for???), but the price point was ridiculous for the time (something like $680 where I was) and, by the time I had earned enough, better stuff was coming out.  Thus began the futile attempt to always have the cutting edge gear all the time!  LOL...

 
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Karyn
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:30:14 (permalink)
I was never allowed a knife.

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:36:19 (permalink)
Karyn
I was never allowed a knife.


 

but you were allowed a high powered rifle with a laser guided scope?
 
 

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:38:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2015/07/07 11:45:14
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Karyn
I was never allowed a knife.


 

but you were allowed a high powered rifle with a laser guided scope?
 
 


Wait.... Karyn's Got A Gun?
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:38:49 (permalink)
KenB123
One of my favorite shows right now on the AMC channel (in it's second season) is "Halt and Catch Fire" (HCF). It's a fictionalized view of the personal computer emergence circa 1983. The Commodore-64 was a major player in a recent episode. Not that this is a new fact, but it made me reminisce while watching the episode that the C64 takes its name from it's 64,536 bytes of RAM. Yea, that is 64k as in kilobytes. Not MB, or GB, or even TB. Anyway, nothing really new. Just a fond memory of what was, and what some considered state-of-the-art personal computing not very long ago.


I haven't seen the show, in fact I haven't even heard of it, but it sounds intriguing. 
 
I still have a Commodore VIC-20 and last time I tried, it still worked (it was the predecessor to the C64).  it has 4k of RAM or you can add a 16k memory module (which I don't have), but I do have a cassette player adapter for external storage/loading of programs (although I don't think I still have a working cassette player) and I have several game cartridges. 
 
I may have to pull that thing out of the closet again and see if it still fires up...

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bapu
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:40:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2015/07/07 11:47:28
Beagle
KenB123
One of my favorite shows right now on the AMC channel (in it's second season) is "Halt and Catch Fire" (HCF). It's a fictionalized view of the personal computer emergence circa 1983. The Commodore-64 was a major player in a recent episode. Not that this is a new fact, but it made me reminisce while watching the episode that the C64 takes its name from it's 64,536 bytes of RAM. Yea, that is 64k as in kilobytes. Not MB, or GB, or even TB. Anyway, nothing really new. Just a fond memory of what was, and what some considered state-of-the-art personal computing not very long ago.


I haven't seen the show, in fact I haven't even heard of it, but it sounds intriguing. 
 
I still have a Commodore VIC-20 and last time I tried, it still worked (it was the predecessor to the C64).  it has 4k of RAM or you can add a 16k memory module (which I don't have), but I do have a cassette player adapter for external storage/loading of programs (although I don't think I still have a working cassette player) and I have several game cartridges. 
 
I may have to pull that thing out of the closet again and see if it still fires up...


Let's hope it doesn't "halt and catch fire".
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Karyn
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 11:44:58 (permalink)
Beagle
Karyn
I was never allowed a knife.


 

but you were allowed a high powered rifle with a laser guided scope?
 
 


No cutting edges on a rifle..

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 17:41:30 (permalink)
Ahh, the good old days. I spent a fortune getting my first midi studio going on an Atari ST running Master Tracks Pro. You know, it was better at midi than anything I have now.. $500 for the program and it came on the new 3.5" HD floppy. But the 40 meg hard drive was almost $1,000.
 
Happy days. 

Regards, John 
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 18:33:54 (permalink)
I still remember paying $520 for a 10 MB hard disk.  Thought it would last forever!
(Now I have over 10 TB attached to my current PC and still need to get another drive soon...)

 
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 20:44:56 (permalink)
In 1983, I had an Atari 800XL, a 5" floppy drive, and a dot matrix printer. I even had the Atariwriter program, the word processing cartridge that Alan Alda did the TV commercial for. Anybody remember that?
post edited by Leadfoot - 2015/07/07 20:52:17
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sharke
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 23:08:39 (permalink)
It really was incredible what coders managed to fit into 64K. Well to be accurate it was something like 68K because those clever bastards did a trick whereby they were switching the kernel in and out when it wasn't needed, giving them an extra 4K to play with. Most of these old assembly guys put today's coders to shame, when you consider how even a ridiculously simple app these days runs into the tens of MB's. I had games on my C64 that were huge in scope and lasted me weeks and weeks of exploration, how in the hell they fit them in there beats me. I guess when you have such a small amount of memory you develop lots of tricks to use it to its full potential. And not a single clock cycle was wasted. 
 
There is still a demo scene devoted to amazing graphics demos that fit into 64K and watching them blows my mind. The way they fit all of these exceedingly clever and complex 3D animation into such a small amount of memory. Lots of math going on of course. Nowadays coders take things like memory and clock cycles for granted and waste an incredible amount of computer power. The mind boggles when you think what kind of potential our current computers could have if people were still coding like those old 8-bit assembly guys. 

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/07 23:11:52 (permalink)
Leadfoot
In 1983, I had an Atari 800XL, a 5" floppy drive, and a dot matrix printer. I even had the Atariwriter program, the word processing cartridge that Alan Alda did the TV commercial for. Anybody remember that?



I don't remember that but I had an Atari 800XL at one point, lovely machine. It was a nice change from my C64 because its BASIC had dedicated graphic and sound commands, unlike the Commodore which required you to POKE values into memory to access the hardware. Lots of classic games on the Atari - I spent many long hours with friends playing things like Solo Flight, Rescue On Fractalus and Ballblazer (I could listen to its fractal theme tune for ages). 

James
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 00:07:49 (permalink)
I was one of those assembler programmers back in the 70's and 80's.  I made functioning worm war and space invader games on the Trash-80 in only 4k of RAM!  Then the Apple's started to come out which gave us color to play with.  All you need to do to really see the evolution of games is to play ID's Rage where there are Easter Eggs hidden throughout the game that have small areas to commemorate the older games like Quake, Doom, Wolfenstein, etc.  When you see those old textures in immediate comparison to what can be done now it's quite a stark contrast!

 
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sharke
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 00:18:14 (permalink)
I remember when the first Playstation came out around 1994 or so. A bunch of us were high on mushrooms(!) and went over to the house of a friend who called to say he'd just got one. I'll never forget seeing Wipeout for the first time and thinking how utterly real and solid the graphics looked, it was like you could reach into the screen and grab them. So funny to look back at the first Playstation now and realize how lame the graphics are compared to today's games. The funny thing is though, the more realistic games became, the less interest I took in them. Back in the 8 bit days I used to love getting lost in those freaky video game worlds that were abstract out of necessity. I mean you couldn't have hyper-real environments, so you had two dimensional rooms full of platforms with demented penguins and shoes flying around trying to get you. It was trippy! If I want hyper-real, I go outdoors. 

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UbiquitousBubba
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 09:28:54 (permalink)
When the computer revolution began, I could only press my face against the glass and watch. I'm not saying I was dirt poor, of course. I couldn't afford dirt. 
 
I watched from a distance as the Timex Sinclair stomped across the Earth. I got to play with a Commodore 64 once, but I didn't know what I was doing. I saw the Vic20 come and go. The Apple II was far too expensive for the lower classes. When the IBM PC came out, I knew it belonged only to the extremely rich and was something I was not meant to wot of. Friends of mine bought Amigas and they boasted that they could run a Mandelbrot generator. We'd look at the strange shapes and I'd ask them how long it would take to finish. They'd tell me that the math was so complex that it needed several hours or even multiple days to complete the image. When it was done, we'd play a game or two. There was one nuclear war game on the Amiga 500 that I absolutely loved. It was hilarious. It featured famous world leaders trash talking each other and hurling nukes. 
 
At work, I used an Osbourne 1 portable computer for awhile. It wasn't really a laptop unless you really did not like your lap. During my lunch breaks, I used that machine to start typing a story that eventually (many years later) turned into a book. 
 
Even though I worked in IT, managing networks, building servers and PCs, I didn't buy a computer with actual money until my kids needed computers for school. All of my other computers were garbage rescues that I got for free. I'd swap parts and Frankenstein a machine that would work for a while. It was always sad when they got pitchforked. 
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Moshkito
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 09:32:17 (permalink)
bapu
We really liked the first season.
 
Got tired of this season after 3 episodes.



You will like the stories around Tangerine Dream, when Edgar Froese's book comes around ... assuming they have not been edited out, as Edgar had 10k jokes about computers knowing music!
post edited by Moshkito - 2015/07/10 08:58:52

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#18
craigb
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 11:28:49 (permalink)
Ah yes...  The Timex Sinclair!  Along with the Pet computer, the two least usable boxes because they only came with 1k(!) of memory!  Say what you want quickly, there's only 1,024 bits available! (maybe enough to print this reply - lol!).

 
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Beagle
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 11:46:16 (permalink)
craigb
Ah yes...  The Timex Sinclair!  Along with the Pet computer, the two least usable boxes because they only came with 1k(!) of memory!  Say what you want quickly, there's only 1,024 bits available! (maybe enough to print this reply - lol!).


Actually, the Timex/Sinclair 1000 came with 2K of RAM onboard and you could add a 16K memory pack to bring it up to 18K.
 
However, what you're probably thinking about is the original Sinclair ZX80 which came with only 1k of on board RAM. 
 
Timex licensed the North American version of the ZX81 in July of 1981 from the British Sinclair Research Co (which also had 2k on board RAM) and branded it the Timex/Sinclair 1000.
 
In '83 T/S came out with the 1500, but by then the market had already taken off with the Commodore 64 and the TRS-80 (fondly known as the Trash 80!).
 
of course, Apple was climbing the ranks at the same time with sales between the Apple II in '77 and the Apple III in '81.  My friend had an Apple IIE which came out somewhere in between those two.  we would stay up all night playing text based adventure games on it!

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 11:57:22 (permalink)
I started, with PC's, on a Commodore VIC 20. 
 
But speaking of memory, I worked as a PCM Telemetry Processor programmer at NASA on the Apollo program.  The Processors were used at the tracking sites for the downlink PCM Telemetry from the space capsules.  The processor had a whopping 4K core memory.  The input was 8 level ASCII paper tape.  The only display was a 4 character "nixie tube" display.  The "processed" data was transferred to an on-site (on the tracking station) Univac computer that did further processing and transmitting to NASA Houston.

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UbiquitousBubba
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 12:04:31 (permalink)
Your business card should include the title: Rocket Scientist.
 
It's one of the coolest possible titles next to Secret Agent, Brain Surgeon or Arch Villain.
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 12:08:01 (permalink)
UbiquitousBubba
Your business card should include the title: Rocket Scientist.
 
It's one of the coolest possible titles next to Secret Agent, Brain Surgeon or Arch Villain.


I would add "Time Lord" to that list.

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 12:15:37 (permalink)
Beagle
UbiquitousBubba
Your business card should include the title: Rocket Scientist.
 
It's one of the coolest possible titles next to Secret Agent, Brain Surgeon or Arch Villain.


I would add "Time Lord" to that list.




Whoa... You mean "Forum Host" didn't make the list? 

 
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 14:44:26 (permalink)
I wonder how many people remember the Dragon 32, or the Oric. It's funny how tech whittled down to 2 competitors whose followers are fiercely defensive - now it's Mac versus Windows, iOS versus Android. Back then in the UK it whittled down to ZX Spectrum versus C64, and everything else fell by the wayside. You always felt sorry for the kids whose misguided parents got them
Dragons or Orics, usually on the advice of some hopelessly uncool nerd sales assistant who didn't care that all the kids were interested in was which models had the best games.

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 17:54:35 (permalink)
Funny thing, I have a shirt that has "Rocket Scientist" on it.  I bought it on a visit to the Kennedy Space Center Visitor's Center.  "I had to have it".  LOL
 

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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 20:32:09 (permalink)
sharke
Leadfoot
In 1983, I had an Atari 800XL, a 5" floppy drive, and a dot matrix printer. I even had the Atariwriter program, the word processing cartridge that Alan Alda did the TV commercial for. Anybody remember that?



I don't remember that but I had an Atari 800XL at one point, lovely machine. It was a nice change from my C64 because its BASIC had dedicated graphic and sound commands, unlike the Commodore which required you to POKE values into memory to access the hardware. Lots of classic games on the Atari - I spent many long hours with friends playing things like Solo Flight, Rescue On Fractalus and Ballblazer (I could listen to its fractal theme tune for ages). 

Man you blew my mind with Rescue On Fractalus! I forgot totally about that game. When I first played it I freaked out when the astronaut that I thought was running to my ship suddenly popped up in front of the window as an alien! I also used to play Joust for hours...flying around on ostriches. Who in the world thought that game up? And yeah, I can remember sitting there with my BASIC manual, and making the Atari do little tricks that seemed so cool at the time.
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sharke
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 23:15:11 (permalink)
Leadfoot
sharke
Leadfoot
In 1983, I had an Atari 800XL, a 5" floppy drive, and a dot matrix printer. I even had the Atariwriter program, the word processing cartridge that Alan Alda did the TV commercial for. Anybody remember that?



I don't remember that but I had an Atari 800XL at one point, lovely machine. It was a nice change from my C64 because its BASIC had dedicated graphic and sound commands, unlike the Commodore which required you to POKE values into memory to access the hardware. Lots of classic games on the Atari - I spent many long hours with friends playing things like Solo Flight, Rescue On Fractalus and Ballblazer (I could listen to its fractal theme tune for ages). 

Man you blew my mind with Rescue On Fractalus! I forgot totally about that game. When I first played it I freaked out when the astronaut that I thought was running to my ship suddenly popped up in front of the window as an alien! I also used to play Joust for hours...flying around on ostriches. Who in the world thought that game up? And yeah, I can remember sitting there with my BASIC manual, and making the Atari do little tricks that seemed so cool at the time.



I believe Rescue on Fractalus was made by Lucasfilm Games and the hype at the time was that it was the first video game to use a fractal based landscape (hence the name). They followed it up with The Eidolon which had similar graphics but was set in some underground caves. I have a vague memory of it but it involved some kind of colored crystals and scary dragons would jump in front of your craft and scare the bejesus out of you. 
 
These games had an atmosphere and a feel to them which is missing from today's multi-million dollar productions. This was largely because the technological limitations of the machines meant you had to use your imagination to fill in the gaps that were left by such low resolution graphics. This took you into a kind of weird, abstract world in your head. Kids aren't getting this any more because every last detail of the world is set in front of them in glorious technicolor which doesn't leave anything to the imagination. 
 
Another reason why these early games were so cool is because they were either written by lone coders or by very small teams. They were full of the personality and quirks of individuals in contrast to today's games which feel like they were designed by a committee. There were some genuinely quirky individuals out there churning out code and they all had their own cool personality. In the UK we had the likes of Jeff Minter, who was obsessed with llamas and Pink Floyd and whose drug-influenced psychedelia made its way into some wonderfully quirky games (Attack of the Mutant Camels etc), and Andrew Braybrook who made some beautifully bizarre and fabulously original games like Gribbly's Day Out and Paradroid. These guys were also very accessible to the video game media and would frequently give cool interviews or write game design diaries for computer magazines. I'm pretty sure I called up Jeff Minter when I was a kid to tell him that Pink Floyd Live In Pompeii was on TV 
 
 
post edited by sharke - 2015/07/08 23:22:20

James
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#28
synkrotron
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/08 23:59:06 (permalink)
Blimey, yeah... Back when I could be bothered, I wrote a program so that I could access all the parameters for the SID chip and even made a keyboard out of wood and copper wire which hooked up to a connection that I had painstakingly soldered up to my C64 keyboard.
 
I was keen then 

http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
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#29
sharke
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Re: Commodore-64. The good old days? 2015/07/09 00:23:08 (permalink)
POKE 53280,x to change the border color
POKE 53281,x to change the background color
 
I will never forget these numbers, ever. 
 
SYS7 would crash the machine. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#30
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