Helpful ReplyThe Eternal Loch

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Starise
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2015/07/07 13:54:30 (permalink)

The Eternal Loch

I made this in about three hours last night. I don't generally do that kind of thing. My mixes usually take at least a few days to a week ( and I'm dragging today)...this one needs some work I think. When I listened to it today I heard some things I wanted to change.
Do you think the bass is too busy or too loud in the mix? Do you hear a lack of clarity in the mids ? Is the acoustic guitar too loud?
These were some of the things I'm thinking...comments and ideas welcome!
 
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#1
theguitarplayer
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/07 14:17:18 (permalink)
Nice piece Tim. My thoughts would be on separation (panning) of the instruments and widening the piece a bit. Seems you have lots of room to work with. Then you can bring the volume controls to their proper points for instrumentation clarity. Once you get it closer to final mix, then you could use your final mix software. I use Izotope Ozone 6 with my custom presets. Very lovely piece so far.
 
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#2
PiBoy
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/08 02:30:30 (permalink)
Nice!

Shine On!
 
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synkrotron
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/08 03:45:32 (permalink)
Hi Tim,
 
This is a nice composition, which I come to expect from you now that I've listened to a lot of your work. The mix is pretty full, to my ears. I'm listening on cans, so the bass may be okay, although I could take more on my KRK's. I wanted to hear more of the hand percussion, as I am sure I can hear some in there (bongos perhaps?), it's hard to tell... Might even be slapping the guitar body, but it's too low to tell for sure. So, perhaps bring that up a bit in the mix.
 
(Sounds funny me providing mix advice to any of you guys LOL)
 
cheers
 
andy

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#4
Bob Oister
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/08 04:25:01 (permalink)
Hey, Tim,
 
How are you, Buddy?  Hope you're doing great!
 
You've got a really nice "World" instrumental here with a relaxing, well  textured Celtic vibe and a fresh, clean sounding mix.  I actually like the meandering bass and how it seems to carry the song along, flowing from section to section.
 
Great song, Tim, nicely done!
Bob
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twisted6s
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/08 05:11:54 (permalink)
Warm, rich, certainly mature. Wonderful.

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Starise
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/09 09:05:08 (permalink)
John- I took tghis suggestion to heart. The only thing I am concerned about now is I might have taken too much mid bite from the acoustic guitars. I think I was able to get a bit more space and distance there. Thanks!
 
Piboy- Thanks for listening!
 
Andy- Thanks for your suggestions! I did bring up the drum more. I recorded it in stereo and I made it mono which seemed to work better. I also made adjustments to the bass. Suggestions are appreciated.FYI the drum is real bodhran 12" and buffalo drum on the downbeats.
 
Bob- Hey great to see you back here again my friend! I'm glad that the "meandering" bass wasn't too diostracting. This was a concern I had. I really appreciate your comments!
 
twisted6s- Thank you!

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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/09 11:50:21 (permalink)
Hi tim , nice relaxing tune with lots going on.
 
Rik
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synkrotron
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/09 14:33:14 (permalink)
Ah, yeah, I can hear that bodhran now Tim. Still subtle, but instantly recognisable. I guess this piece does not need something that is too overpowering.
 

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marcos69
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/10 23:23:21 (permalink)
Tim, this is a very well constructed tune and mix.  I wouldn't mind the percussion coming up a bit.  I like the bassline.  It fits well.

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#10
Planobilly
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/10 23:40:20 (permalink)
I am too new at this to say something technical. The song does what I like, it creates imagery in my head. It also forms a connection with someone I never met.
 
Good stuff
 
Cheers,
 
Billy

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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/11 07:49:07 (permalink)
Nice tune Tim but it does not quite create the image I have from the title, for me it has a too enclosed sound, I would expect an airy sound with space to breath.
 
Good start and knowing how hard you work on your music I think this has the potential to be one of your master pieces.
 
Thanks for sharing.

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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/12 00:59:30 (permalink)
Hi Tim...catching up with some listening today...so far this sounds like more my type of music.  As I just said to Walt in a critique of his latest tune there is too much energy in the low-mid's and I think you've mastered this too loud.  IMO go back to the mix and work on the gain stage...this way you can get those instruments loud and big but then lower the gain stage on the master buss...this seems to allow you have a soft mix but it's still loud and big...if that makes any sense.  Also check your pan law...for this sort of track I would want -3db pan law...it doesn't really matter which one...use your ear's...but what this does is stop the track from bunching up in the middle...if you want a boxy sound...one that isn't highly stereo...then it's fine to leave the pan law at zero but for something that needs air...IMO you don't want that...try tuning the top end some more too...I'm not sure what EQ your using on the master but the Pro Channel set to Pure is the way to go...and make sure in between stages to use the liner phase EQ and search for the formant of the track...you will hear it...this is where the track all of a sudden opens up...I've know about this stuff for some time but I've only just recently employed it in mastering (you should really be doing it across the mix) and I'm blown away by how much of a difference it makes...one day I will sit down and do some proper tutorial vids.  I've really been putting in some lone hours (ADHD medication :)) and I've finally managed to get all the little bits of theory that I've known and put it into practice.
 
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ohgrant
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/12 08:31:12 (permalink)
 Awesome tune Tim, I really enjoyed. You must have a museum filled with rare stringed instruments. 

Me
 
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/12 14:43:53 (permalink)
That's nice Tim. I felt the acoustic guitar got a bit lost/buried as the piece developed, likewise the bodhran. Bass is cool. Good Clannad vibe to this.

 
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ABeautifulVirus
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/12 18:29:29 (permalink)
Tim- what a journey. love the ukulele tuned in 5ths 
reminds me of REM's Green album, which is one of my favs of theirs!
loved this bro- 
 
- Daren 
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emeraldsoul
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/12 23:49:47 (permalink)
You have recently developed an instrumentation that totally just works as a group. Very Jethro Tull jammish goodness.  
 
On this one, I'd eq a little top away from that bass guitar, just a little.
 
nice one!
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#17
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/13 08:24:08 (permalink)
at first i thought some timing issues but now just think you're pushing the beat a little? anyway, love how this builds up, good change of instrumentation to keep the dynamics altering. good mix too!

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dcumpian
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/14 18:37:00 (permalink)
This sounds so good Tim! The instrumentation is very well done, and the bass meanders, but it isn't bad at all. What this really needs is a singer, female, light and airy.
 
Great job!
 
Regards,
Dan

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Starise
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/16 13:41:52 (permalink)
Hi guys I really appreciate the great feedback I've gotten on this track! I'll respond individually...
 
Rik- Many thanks to you sir! I hope this finds you feeling better!
 
synkrotron- Coming from a synth guy I really appreciate your take on it! 
 
Mark- Glad to see you back again Mark long time no see! Thank you for your advice!
 
Billy- Welcome to the song area! Nice to meet you! ...and thanks for listening and commenting on this track!
 
Wookie- I appreciate you honesty here...I'll go back and re evaluate this!
 
Ben- When I listen to your mixes I usually hear a great mix...so I'm listening...I did pan the parts. I'm not even sure which panning law I used. I do usually try and use panning to my advantage.Maybe I need to look at it more in depth this time and try to hear what you are hearing.
On my last track I heard that it was too loud by one listener out of like 20 comments....but people are accustomed to listen louder, so he may have been onto something, and the genre should be taken into consideration I think. When I compare my track to other similar tracks in my genre, I had found the volume to be too soft and so I did take some measures to make it louder and to my ears it still doesn't quite measure up to pro mastered material, but I don't doubt you Ben...so PLEASE if anyone else is hearing this please tell me so I can look more at my staging...on my system it seems to be ok with my volume set to 50%...maybe even a bit low. I am loud using K-14 but I fall into a comfortable range at the typical db scale. Thanks for your detailed comments Ben!
 
ohgrant- Thanks man! Well I have a small room filled with stringed instruments...and I am planning to add at least a few more...old world maybe but not really old :)
 
James- Thanks for your comments.Unforunately until I can get a little better preamp setup my guitar doesn't really capture the way I'd like it to. It seems to work for me sometimes in that guitars can be too much especially in the high mids...the flip side is a guitar track that lacks a lot of mojo...and my bodhran is only 12"...I'm going to be getting a big one soon.
 
Daren- Thanks man! If your interested there's a guy stringing ukes up in GDAD. He uses two nylon and two steel strings.. The steel strings are the low strings and the nylon are the higher ones. They are heck to keep in tune though.As an addition to other stringed parts i think it works great.
 
Tom- Thanks! I'm glad you think my current setup is working ok...I had wondered about the bass since I can hear some string noise. This is probably what you're referring to.
 
mgh- Thank you!
 
Dan- Thanks Dan good to hear from you!...a female..light and airy you say? I'm not sure how much I should devulge here...I thought I had a female vocalist..she agreed to work on future things with me and then she simply disappeared. I sent an idea, she said she would get back to me and ....nothing in over a month. I'm a little disappointed. I think she wanted to work on her own material...putz around with reason and get kudos by herself ..I don't really know because  she dropped off the radar which I think was more than a little immature ( especially for a 40 year old). I had my hopes up but she was pretty good at sticking a hole in my balloon.....I'm starting to get really tired of attempting to work with women...sorry but that's just how I feel right now. I seen a real potential to combine our abilities...but well...screw it....so I guess maybe you can tell I'm a little bitter. I have shevannai and that works ok for some things, but I'm really trying to be more independent in my creations because it seems I have to be.

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dcumpian
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/16 15:38:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/07/17 14:30:37
I hear you about the singer. I haven't met one yet that wasn't some kind of flake or just plain difficult to work with. I'm sure they are out there, but I've never met 'em.
 
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thepogue
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/17 04:27:20 (permalink)
really enjoyed this tune..and no I dont think the bass is too busy.
 
I think you've got loads of good mixing advice so I'll just add it does need some air and things need to come up front a bit more...
 
i love the feel...
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Walt Collins
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/17 09:01:03 (permalink)
Hey Tim, I am loving your instrumentation and the ethnic vibe in all your recent songs.  This is no exception.  It meanders a little, but that's part of the attraction, IMO.  Keep up the great work. :)

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Starise
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/17 14:33:27 (permalink)
Dan- I wish I couldn't agree with you but from everything I have seen I can't deny it...maybe some time I'll be peasantly surprised. I'm not saying all women are evil lol!...but I haven't found the right combination yet. When they think they're good they start to distance themselves from us mere mortals. And they might not really even be that good...all they need to do is think they are :)
 
thepogue- Thanks man! Yeah...now all I need to do is go back and try to correct some of those things !
 
Walt- Thanks! Maybe one of these day I'll bump into you seeeing as how you don't live very far away!
 
Note- Just a heads up. I won't be able to get to a computer for awhile after today....so if I missed commenting on a song you did I sincerely apologize and I would ask that you post me a link in a PM...I'll do my best when I can to listen to it...not that my comments are anything spectacular, but I don't intentionally miss anyone if I can help it and I'm sure you realize there are only so many hours in the day and I just run out of time.
 
All The Best
 
Tim 
post edited by Starise - 2015/07/17 14:40:28

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#24
Vilovilo
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/18 17:37:39 (permalink)
Hi Tim,
Great track,
You have got amazing ideas and creativity in this Celtic idiom and the skills to tell us the story...
The only thing imho is a kind of conflict on the lows between the bass and the hand drums,I cannot say wether it comes from frequencies or what we call here overseas " mise en place" ,though my instinct tells me that equalizing won't make the whole job...
Sorry,sorry but the tune again ,imho,deserves a sharper look in the bass area.
All the best,
Olivier
post edited by Vilovilo - 2015/07/18 17:45:51
#25
bapu
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/18 18:46:53 (permalink)
I dunno since I'm a luddite to this kind of music and any crits would be (IMO) just personal taste.
 
I liked it all. I did not find any jarring or glaring errors in mix levels or performances on one listen.
#26
stevec
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Re: The Eternal Loch 2015/07/23 14:59:36 (permalink)
Typical, Tim...  
 
There's a lot going on but the mix still stands up IMO.   Love the instrumentation, as usual, and the blend sounds good overall.   About the only critique I could offer is that the timing between instruments does shift here and there, but this isn't an EDM tune so things like that aren't necessarily a bad thing!
 
By the end I was sorta reminded of Zep's Battle of Evermore.   Except this is probably a little bigger.  

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