Legato on selected notess

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armandomerino
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2015/07/29 18:25:03 (permalink)

Legato on selected notess

Hi. Is there a way to legato only selected notes?
I have tried with Legato CAL but it affects all notes in a selected range, not just the selected notes.

I.e. I have a piano midi track and the left hand is doing chords while right hand is doing melody. So when trying to legato the melody, I select the notes but also affect the non-selected notes of thr chord.

Please help.
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    matt fresha
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/29 19:26:52 (permalink)
    It looks like legato can be done with the CAL, and that doesn't always work out well. Sonar needs some definite improvement in the MIDI department, at least when it comes to editing. This has been my ONE complaint about Sonar over the years. It's way behind things like Studio One and Cubase in that regard (both of which I have and love a lot. I just prefer Cubase over everything for MIDI work)
     
    There might be another way to do legato, but it's really hit-or-miss.
    #2
    icontakt
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/29 21:08:29 (permalink)
    I don't think it's possible to legato only selected notes, and I think it's by design (I'm not saying it's good).
    In your case, a simple workaround would be to split the left hand notes and right hand notes into different tracks.

    Tak T.
     
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    icontakt
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/29 21:17:30 (permalink)
    Vern C
    Sonar needs some definite improvement in the MIDI department, at least when it comes to editing. This has been my ONE complaint about Sonar over the years. It's way behind things like Studio One


     
    Maybe Studio One 3 can do it better now, but version 2 didn't even have MIDI effects. And it didn't (maybe still doesn't?) have good timing/velocity humanize options (no percentage setting, which is found in Sonar's Quantize and Velocity MIDI effects) were there (and the Restore Velocity command sometimes didn't work properly). 

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    DRanck
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/29 23:19:09 (permalink)
    Legato is handled in different ways by different virtual instruments. It sounds like you have a piano VSTi that doesn't a have a special legato patch so the method of adding legato should be simple. One way is to open up the Piano Roll View and simply extend the notes you want to play legato a little bit past the beginning of the next note. You can also drag-select a number of notes and extend their duration at one time.
     

     
    When creating midi piano tracks it is often helpful to me to have the left and right hands on different tracks but that;s probably overkill here.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 03:04:31 (permalink)
    CAL scripts always operate only on selected notes. You just have to do the work of selecting melody notes by pitch and Ctrl-clicking/lassoing to add/remove notes from the selection as necessary to get all the melody and only the melody notes. This would have to be done to move them to another track as well, so there's no avoiding it. But it's not necessary to take them out of the current track to selectively apply legato.
     
     

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 03:28:56 (permalink)
    Another way would be to split the midi track between the left & right hand parts and run the CAL on the melody part only.

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    icontakt
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 03:58:25 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    CAL scripts always operate only on selected notes. 

     
    Maybe this is a bug then? I just tried something like this only a few days ago and it worked on unselected notes as well.
     

     

    Tak T.
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 11:36:01 (permalink)
    Looks to me like legato.cal is working correctly to extend the selected notes, and they just end up overlapping and hiding the unselected notes in between. In any case, it makes no musical sense to apply legato to notes of the same pitch, and not select all of them in the range.
     
     

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    DRanck
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 12:05:19 (permalink)
    As brundlefly says, in your example you most likely hiding the unselected notes.

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    icontakt
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 12:06:30 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    Looks to me like legato.cal is working correctly to extend the selected notes, and they just end up overlapping and hiding the unselected notes in between. In any case, it makes no musical sense to apply legato to notes of the same pitch, and not select all of them in the range.
     



    Now I know how it works. :-)
     
    In the image below, I randomize notes in a bass track (to humanize them, but I'm intentionally doing it a bit too much in the image just to make it easy to see), then select a set of notes one by one to apply legato. This is the correct way to do it, isn't it?
     

     
     
    I now wonder what the OP did to cause the issue he explained.
     

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    SquireBum
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 13:04:36 (permalink)
    icontakt
    I now wonder what the OP did to cause the issue he explained.

     
    I can reproduce the OP's behavior.
     
    Steps to reproduce:
    1.  Enter several 2 or 3 note chords in the PRV
    2.  Select only the top notes of the chord
    3.  Run Legato.cal
     
    Expected results:  Only the top notes of the chords should be extended
     
    Actual results:  All notes of the chords are extended and become selected
     
    I haven't looked at the code in the Legato.cal script yet, but it appears to select and extend all notes in the selected time range regardless of individual note selection.
     
    -- Ron

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 13:14:48 (permalink)
    Yes, if you want individual pairs of notes to be played legato, you have to process them individually like that. BTW, you can keybind .CALs to speed up a process like that.
     
    I suspect the OP was either mistaken about what was selected or just misinterpreted the result somehow.

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    SquireBum
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 14:01:49 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    I suspect the OP was either mistaken about what was selected or just misinterpreted the result somehow.



    The OP's behavior can be reproduced.
    Did you miss my post?
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 17:02:30 (permalink)
    Yes, Ron, I did miss your post. 
     
    I've since played around a little, and was able to repro the problem, but only when using hard-quantized MIDI where "melody" and "chord" note start times were identical. I also noticed that notes that were not selected initially become selected after processing. So, though I haven't looked at the CAL, myself, it appears that the CAL may be adding to the selection as it processes, and it has problems with notes that have identical start times.
     
    This latter issue isn't too surprising because obviously there's a logical problem about what to do when the "next" note starts at the same time as the "current" one. Obviously legato makes more sense for a monophonic voice/line where it's impossible for two notes to start at the same time. Selecting only melody notes should avoid that problem, but if CAL is adding to the selection as it processes so that it can encounter other notes that start at the same time that's going to be a problem.
     
    Some things I saw also seemed to suggest that the CAL might not be re-initializing variables properly when it's run a second time, or maybe pointers aren't getting disposed of by SONAR. Undoing, re-selecting and running it again can give different results the second time.
     
    Since CAL is deprecated, and CAL scripts tend not to be very thoroughly debugged, especially with regard to unexpected input, anything is possible.
     
    All that said, I haven't seen a problem when selecting a melody line and a running legato.cal in an unquantized piece that didn't have any selected notes starting on the exact same tick as some other note.
     

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    SquireBum
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/30 18:14:02 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    All that said, I haven't seen a problem when selecting a melody line and a running legato.cal in an unquantized piece that didn't have any selected notes starting on the exact same tick as some other note.



    Completely agree, Dave. 
     
    In the case of the OP, it seems the best approach is to separate the right and left hand parts before processing, since we don't know how often melody notes in the right hand occur at the same time of the harmony notes in the left hand.
     
    -- Ron

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    icontakt
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/07/31 01:58:08 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    BTW, you can keybind .CALs to speed up a process like that.

     
    Yes, I use keyboard shortcuts for other CALs I regularly use. I'll keybind legato too.
     
    brundlefly
    I also noticed that notes that were not selected initially become selected after processing. 

     
    Ah, that's why I though it was a bug when I captured the first screenshot. I performed undo and saw the notes I didn't select were selected.

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    armandomerino
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/08/03 10:33:33 (permalink)
    Hi everyone.

    Yes, the problem is that thr CAL selects (and affects) unselected notes in the vertical plane of the selected horizontal range. So the best solution for this case is separate the melody from the harmmony in individual clips or do the legato manually when there are just a few notes.

    Thank you everyone!!
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/08/03 11:52:28 (permalink)
    I suggested that in post #7

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    icontakt
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    Re: Legato on selected notess 2015/08/03 20:57:11 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    I suggested that in post #7

     
     And so did I in post #3. 

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