Helpful ReplyLearning Piano for Guitar Player

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RSMCGUITAR
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2015/07/25 16:57:11 (permalink)

Learning Piano for Guitar Player

Does anyone know a good online resource for learning piano. I've been playing guitar for many years. Now that I'm working with midi more often it would be nice to improve my knowledge on the keyboard. I'm looking to avoid learning stuff like Old McDonald and other kid songs so that I stay motivated to learn. Mostly I just want the basics for hashing out ideas. thanks
#1
bayoubill
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/25 17:06:43 (permalink)
1st learn all the notes on the keyboard. Sit at the keyboard once a day working at it for 30 min or so. It will take time so don't set a limit just be consistent. After you get comfortable with all the notes move to diatonic chords n C cuz there are no sharps or flats. Triads and 7th chords. Stay with the 30 min sessions. 
 
I suggest this book 

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Beepster
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/25 18:31:42 (permalink)
If you're trying to learn how to actually play full on piano stuff I can't help you but for understanding the keyboard just so you can punch in basslines, chords and melodies try this stuff...
 
Learn the seven modes in C Major. It's all white keys so it's easy and the basic premise is you find the C. Play from C to C (and always remember where the C key is... doesn't even matter if it's middle C).
 
Then go up one white key (which will be D) and play from D to D. Just keep going up one key like that until you reach the next C. Those are the modes.
 
Then research the Circle of Fifths for the keyboard. It's wicked simple. Essentially it moves through all the Major keys. On guitar this is f*cked. On the piano it is soooper easy. You just add one black key every time in a specific order until you run out of black keys (just look it up). From there you can use those black/white key patterns to create all twelve keys and to create the modes you just do what you did with C Major (start on the first not, play up to the octave. Start on the second note, play up to the octave, and so on).
 
After you get used to that concept (you don't have to be proficient if you're just trying to understand the keyboard) then learn how simple triads (I III V) chords are fingered. Then how they invert (III V I or V I III).
 
Try playing those triads and their inversions in arpeggios. Move up the scales/modes of the keys to create different triad qualities (there are 3 Major, 3 Minor and  1 Diminished in the Major modes/keys).
 
Then add a 7th to your chords or whatever else you want. Just like guitar if you stick to those basic scales and modes you can't really go wrong. Of course you can mix it up with harmonic/melodic minors or exotic scales.
 
Really piano theory is about a million times easier than guitar theory IMO. It's all laid out for you right there on the keyboard. Actually PLAYING the piano... properly... with both hands? Well that is a whole other story but just twonking out some chords and melodies for MIDI input is no problem.
 
Cheers.
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TheMaartian
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/25 19:05:58 (permalink)
Back in 1964, I could play Mozart piano concertos, transcribing on the fly. Today, I look at my hands and wonder what the hell happened. 
 
If you want to learn to play the piano properly, or relearn, as in my case, check out the following:
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0882848186
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0882849956
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0739000683
 
This Adult All-In-One course is, IMO, the best of many. What can be confusing is that this course was designed to be instructor-led, so most of the listings are for the student book (without CD), not the teacher's book (with the CD). In this case, I didn't need the CDs; the series is that good.
 
Happy Keyboarding!
 
I've also found Keyboard Magazine to be one of the best written musician's mags. Always good stuff.

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mettelus
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/26 01:49:11 (permalink)
This is a tough question, but I will say I began playing piano as a child, and learned more about the piano by playing guitar than I did from any piano teacher.
 
Chords/intervals are all the same, the only difference is the spacing is now a bit off because the keys are not all the same size! This can make learning key signatures seem like a mathematical equation at times, so the hurdle for me has been learning keys and being able to move between them without "thinking." Initially that is a challenge, so easier to work in one at a time.
 
Advantage of a piano is that all inversions are possible (easily) with just one hand! From a "compositional" standpoint, it is similar to guitar to begin with (key) chords. One side point that is helpful is what I have seen called a "7-3-5" voicing (for sevenths chords), where the root is dropped by 2 octaves (into the bass line), and the 7th is dropped by an octave (so is a half step below the initial root). The root is then played left-handed, and the 7-3-5 is played with the right hand (only one key is different from the major triad). This yields a very full sound, and can readily play with the individual notes from there.
 
From a sonic perspective, playing with 2-note voicings (simple intervals) can be a great learning experience (same as on a guitar).

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tomixornot
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/26 11:12:41 (permalink)
Since you play guitar, you should be able to teach yourself, at least to kick start. And the first step (when I got started) is to master the Major Scales in all 12 keys. Buy a scale book with fingerings. Go with the order of one extra sharp or flat at a time (circle of 5th) C, G, D.. / (circle of 4th) C, F, Bb.. Once you're able to play a full scale in a few keys, that would give you sufficient info how to position your fingerings and you can attempt any melody you already know.
 
And then this too :
 
http://www.pianopractice.org/book.pdf

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codamedia
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/27 11:28:57 (permalink)
I would recommend taking just a couple of lessons from someone in your area. They can narrow in on your knowledge of music, provide some quick insight as to how to understand the piano then give you a suggestion or two on books that can help you progress.
 
mettelus
This is a tough question, but I will say I began playing piano as a child, and learned more about the piano by playing guitar than I did from any piano teacher.

 
Might I suggest you didn't have a very good teacher, or teachers . A keyboard is a very easy instrument to understand compared to a guitar and therefore should be relatively easy to teach. (I'm talking about understanding the instrument, not becoming a great player on it...)
 
Example: Take somebody with zero musical knowledge and show them a C note on a Piano, and explain to them that the C note is always the white key before the two black keys. Immediately - they can point to every C note on a Piano. Or that all the white keys are the naturals (c,d,e,f,g,a,b) and the black keys are sharps/flats. That's not so easy to explain on the guitar.
post edited by codamedia - 2015/07/27 12:02:03

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mettelus
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/28 02:38:18 (permalink)
Yeah, I will give you that one. I was also 8, and the focus was playing simple things and sight reading. When I help out others, especially new players, I typically head them down the path of (key) chords since that is the foundation for everything, and chords/vocal alone is often enough to perform a song (guitar has the advantage that you can take it with you ). Bottom line is it is incredibly easy to totally overwhelm someone new and leave them disheartened if they cannot go off on their own and actually "do something." So much about "instrument" is personal preference, and they all have their place or wouldn't exist.
 
Visually on a guitar, barre chords, intervals, etc. all have the same left hand position, just the root changes. Simply learning the notes on the E and A strings is a good start for new guitarists (hence power chords being so popular), and they do not even "need" to know what the other notes are to play them. I remember as a kid counting keys often to "find" major/minor triads.
 
The biggest hurdle to a new guitarist is actually pain in the fingertips... that hurdle has to be approached with care as some will give up forever as a result. I never recall my fingers ever hurting from piano...

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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/28 02:59:30 (permalink)
All very useful recommendations above. One of the biggest difficulties I found was the relationship between the rhythm/bass playing of the left hand underpinning the  patterns of melody you are picking out on the right hand. Practise some basic left hand moves on their own, basic 1, 3, 5, 6 stuff, etc in keys of C, G, F. Add a basic simple melody - Mary had a little lamb, etc and just to familiarise yourself with these patterns.
 
I saw Jools Holland and his Rhythm and Blues Orchestra last week. Watching Jools is enough to make me wonder what I'm doing in front of a keyboard. Still ... we can all dream!
 
Jerry
post edited by jerrydf - 2015/07/28 04:40:28

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synkrotron
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/28 03:32:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/07/29 15:57:47
I just stay away from those black notes.

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batsbrew
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/29 12:31:23 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR
Does anyone know a good online resource for learning piano. I've been playing guitar for many years. Now that I'm working with midi more often it would be nice to improve my knowledge on the keyboard. I'm looking to avoid learning stuff like Old McDonald and other kid songs so that I stay motivated to learn. Mostly I just want the basics for hashing out ideas. thanks


the very best answer i can think of,
is to avoid on line,
and find a good local teacher, and take some lessons.
 
this will take you further than any other approach.
 

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Beepster
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/29 13:03:22 (permalink)
batsbrew
RSMCGUITAR
Does anyone know a good online resource for learning piano. I've been playing guitar for many years. Now that I'm working with midi more often it would be nice to improve my knowledge on the keyboard. I'm looking to avoid learning stuff like Old McDonald and other kid songs so that I stay motivated to learn. Mostly I just want the basics for hashing out ideas. thanks


the very best answer i can think of,
is to avoid on line,
and find a good local teacher, and take some lessons.
 
this will take you further than any other approach.
 




True of every instrument for total beginners. Doesn't matter how much theory knowledge/experience one has. Each instrument has their own physical technique so getting trained by a pro in HOW to physically attack the instrument, even just the basics, is so incredibly crucial.
 
I am mostly self taught on guitar but I took about a year of lessons from an accredited teacher when I first started out (at the ripe old age of 12). I learn absolutely jackwad nothingballs as far as anything useful theory-wise (he was using the lame 20 year method) but just getting the instruction on how fret notes properly, hold the guitar, use the pick, etc likely helped me get a leg up for my own spazzo studies over the years.
 
I played in a band with girl who took harcore classical piano lesson lessons as a kid. She showed me the proper way to practice piano scales and really it's the type of very specific physical training you'd never figure out on your own. That was the ONLY thing she showed me though and I can only imagine there are tons of specific tricks to tickling the keys efficiently.
 
Biggest problem for me I think would be "un-glueing" my left and right hands. 25 years of having your right hand smack out what the left hand is setting up makes it sooo difficult to get that nice, individual free movement. Tripped me up pretty bad on drums too when I was playing those but I managed to break the glue a little bit after a while on my own. Totally different animal though and I still struggled with stuff (I could NEVER figure out the whole hi hat foot control thing... that all just seems wrong and backwards, lol).
 
It's so much easier to get affordable lessons these days since music shops have started theor little clinics so yeah... definitely look into that. I intend to if I ever have the cash/time.
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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/29 16:02:24 (permalink)
Thanks for all the feedback on this guys! Some great suggestions here.
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synkrotron
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/29 16:03:54 (permalink)
LOL! Even mine 

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Amine Belkhouche
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/30 01:22:37 (permalink)
Finding a good teacher is always going to help you improve faster. I would look for teachers who have been trained in piano performance either at a conservatory or at the undergraduate/masters level. If you live near a big city, it shouldn't be impossible to find one. My piano teacher was trained at a conservatory back in the days of the USSR and she's just awesome.
 
TheMaartian has the right idea if you want to go the autodidact route. Those books are great. The Bastien series is also good:
http://www.amazon.com/KP1B-Bastien-Beginning-Lessons-Technic/dp/0849773024
http://www.amazon.com/Bastein-Piano-Adults-Book-Beginning/dp/0849773067/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1V56DV28FWRK99ZEA182
 
If you dedicate time to those books, you can definitely become a better musician. Of course, there are always going to be some challenges going the autodidact route but if you establish your goals clearly, you can make quite a bit of progress.
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Amine Belkhouche
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/30 01:25:28 (permalink)
TheMaartian
Back in 1964, I could play Mozart piano concertos, transcribing on the fly. Today, I look at my hands and wonder what the hell happened. 




That's awesome and I'm jealous... If only I could handle a Mozart sonata.
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TheMaartian
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/30 12:06:45 (permalink)
Amine Belkhouche
TheMaartian
Back in 1964, I could play Mozart piano concertos, transcribing on the fly. Today, I look at my hands and wonder what the hell happened. 




That's awesome and I'm jealous... If only I could handle a Mozart sonata.


Here are two videos of my second (and BEST) piano teacher. She's about 80 in the videos. She had a stroke when she was 62, and had only been able to play left-handed ever since. When I studied under in from '61-'64, she was the soloist for the St. Louis Philharmonic.
 
Chopin-Godowsky Etude Op. 25 #1 for Left Hand Alone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY-Yf-l97Fk
 
Moszkowski Etude No. 12 for Left Hand Alone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yYdv8GNdww
 
My Saturday morning lessons included one hour of sitting at her kitchen table transcribing the work of the day up or down, say, a minor 3rd, you know, just for fun! What EVERY 10 year old wants to be doing on Saturday morning! 

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Amine Belkhouche
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/30 13:13:22 (permalink)
She's absolutely amazing. I tried my hand at the Scriabin etudes, needless to say, there were balance issues all over the place. They're a great learning tool nonetheless.
 
TheMaartian
My Saturday morning lessons included one hour of sitting at her kitchen table transcribing the work of the day up or down, say, a minor 3rd, you know, just for fun! What EVERY 10 year old wants to be doing on Saturday morning! 




Transcriptions are like eating vegetables, not many 10 year olds want to do it, but you can be damn sure they're really good for you.
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bayoubill
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/30 14:22:48 (permalink)
Find middle C and then move to the note next to it and learn it's name.     ~LEARN IT~
Do this on both sides till you reach C again   ~DO IT~

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Amine Belkhouche
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/07/31 03:43:03 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR, there is an added benefit of learning from a teacher or, at the very least, a good piano book. They structure the lessons for you and they present the information in a useful and gradual manner. This gives the beginner student less things to think about, which is very helpful. Again, if you can, get a teacher. However, if you feel like you're a good self-learner (that's a skill in itself), then look at some of the books that were provided and commit to learning them.
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rebel007
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/08/05 20:53:24 (permalink)
You say you have been playing guitar for many years, I would assume then that you know your theory to a basic standard. The hard part then becomes translating that to a keyboard and, as Beep says, getting your hands to do what your head is telling them. As a piano teacher of nearly 40 years I can tell you that hand coordination only comes with practice and playing. The theory of white/black keys you should be able to get from a good book, or internet site, but a few lessons from a good teacher will stop any bad habits forming early. Good luck, music is not a hobby, it's a career choice, and what you get out of it depends on what you put in.
My favourite saying of all time, and the one I have 'blue tacked' to my piano, is "never let a note go by uncared for".

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cwestmont
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/08/05 23:40:56 (permalink)
My two bits: I practice best when playing songs I really like. Seems like some teachers seem to want to teach songs they have in mind.  Make it fun!
Online options: Scott Houston  (the Piano Guy on public TV) has videos on YouTube showing a bunch of stuff.  His guests on the TV show are solid and play a range of styles. 
 
I like this guy's approach for pop songs: search YouTube for Piano Couture or his web site,  example :
http://www.piano-couture....g-in-memphis-marc-cohn

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Learning Piano for Guitar Player 2015/08/06 12:31:59 (permalink)
I'm sort of in the same boat as the OP …
I went to my public library and found a DVD called Learning Piano by Pete Sears …..took it home .
I found this DVD very helpful ….two thumbs up … it helped me so much I want to meet Pete Sears someday 
 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/08/06 17:55:02

                   
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