Helpful ReplyW10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems

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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 09:43:05 (permalink)
The last link states it only effected beta testers. Like it or hate it that's beta testing..

Set windows update to slow ring and you are good to go.

The google search doesn't really tell me anything...

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#2
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 09:54:00 (permalink)
This post should not have been moved. This issue can have a direct bearing on an audio computer and hence the use of sonar.
 
And it is of more relevance than many of the posts that are still in the sonar forum.
 
And: the NVidia update problem was not about windows being beta, it was about a bad update published by NVidia and was installed because of the windows auto update "feature." This is just one example of the badness of auto updates.
 
#3
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 10:12:58 (permalink)
On the basis of that all windows issues should be in the Sonar forums. I would take issue with that.

'This issue can have a direct bearing on an audio computer' .... So it's now in the perfect forum.

Let me quote the article you posted:

'beta testers were forced to download a Nvidia driver that kept causing crashes.'

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#4
Beepster
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 10:27:42 (permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
On the basis of that all windows issues should be in the Sonar forums. I would take issue with that.

'This issue can have a direct bearing on an audio computer' .... So it's now in the perfect forum.

Let me quote the article you posted:

'beta testers were forced to download a Nvidia driver that kept causing crashes.'



hmm... even though I'm on Win7 (Pro) I received an NVIDIA update recently that's been nagging me to install. I'm guessing this is their Win10 compatibility update. Wonder how it might affect a 7 user and/or whether I need it at all. I was tempted to install it the other day but got distracted by some other shiny stuff. Didn't even think about the fact it's like just something to do with Win10 which I don't care abotu right now for obvious reasons.
 
Hurray for shiny things and selective ADD potentially saving me from myself. lol
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 10:56:18 (permalink)
The nvidia update distributed with win 7/8 is generally well out of date compared to the nvidia website unless they've changed it again..

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fireberd
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 10:59:59 (permalink)
I've seen reports about the NVIDIA update.  However, my backup/test system, that has been running Win 10 for a while (I'm on the "insider" program and the Preview versions) and now has Win8.1 upgraded to Win 10 has an NVIDIA GTS450OC video card and is not having any problems, that I'm aware of.

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#7
charlyg
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 11:15:16 (permalink)
No problems with a GTX 660,been on preview for a while....

 
 
#8
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 17:32:52 (permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
The nvidia update distributed with win 7/8 is generally well out of date compared to the nvidia website unless they've changed it again..



He may be talking about the actual nvidia thingy 'nagging' him, and that will most certainly be up to date. I have just updated my graphics driver on my 2 main music PC's for the first time in over 18 months, don't really notice any difference, but then had no problem with the old one.
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Beepster
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/01 17:51:41 (permalink)
Yeah, a while back I finally installed the proper drivers for my vid card (so I could actually adjust my resolution properly... kind of). So now I've got the NVIDEA widget/program thingie. When I did that it was the latest version (this was maybe 5 months ago I think). It just started nagging me in the past couple weeks.
#10
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/02 01:06:53 (permalink)
My reference to the NVidia update is this is an example of what others have described as a major issue, wake up in the morning and the computer is in an endless loop of trying to boot with an update that was not required, and/or bad.
 
Many of the articles site this as a big problem with third party drivers not being vetted by MS before being issued. and that users have to do lots of preemptive opting out to prevent machines from being pooped on.
 
Other articles state that it is not possible for MS dudes to fully vet all the security updates.
 
Last fall 3 windows 7 updates nuked millions of computers with endless rollbacks and reinstallations.
 
Automatic updates is a bad idea.  Difficult to uninstall an update that prevents the computer from starting.  MS's track record with fixing startup issues for 7 and 8 is not good.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/02 08:01:35 (permalink)
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
This is just one example of the badness of auto updates.


Do you have any better examples with Windows 10 outside the beta test environment?
Why don't you just set autoupdate to "slow ring"?
 
In my experience I've only needed to roll back 1 patche per OS release since Windows 7. Considering how many patches they release that's pretty good, rolling back was quite simple.

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TerraSin
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/02 11:34:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Doktor Avalanche 2015/08/02 11:34:47
Lucky for us, Windows is staying with a developer release for this exact reason. People who ran the developer builds have the opportunity to continue to test Windows releases before they are shipped to public which means issues with updates will be quickly caught. I don't forsee any issues with the forced updates and is more a good thing because it will keep people up to date. More than once I went a week without updating. Not the smartst thing to do if there is something critical.
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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/10 17:34:55 (permalink)
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/10 20:30:13 (permalink)

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#15
jbow
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/19 13:20:15 (permalink)
I haven't had a problem. I only went to W-10 on my laptop, specs below. IT seems fine but I REALLY like to do manual updates. On my DAW, W-8.1 Studiocat. I have it set to never check for updates. I do it myself once a week or so, I download and install all "important" updates, I pick very few "optional" updates to DL and install. Until this is changed or I understand how to change it I will be staying with W-8.2 on my DAW, unless MS decides the next time I'm online with it to just go ahead and upgrade me... frankly, it wouldn't surprise me.
I read through a couple of links about security and about "hiding" updates.. it confused me and I'm not sure what to do and like I said, until I am.. the DAW is remaining 8.1
Also, I think I mentioned elsewhere that if you keep your DAW online or if you use two computers like I use the laptop and the DAW, they both have Platinum on them... (I've always done this, I think you pretty much need to if you're on WIFI) is to DISABLE the WIFI when ever I work with Sonar. I helps a lot... and certainly would stop MS from downloading something while you are working in your DAW. Now, whether something might already be downloaded and try to install while you're offline and DAWing... that I don't know nor do I know how to tell or hw to stop it from happening, I suppose task manager should stop any process but it might also make a mess of things... I just don't knw and THAT is the problem.
It's like this. Computers and touchscreens, fast interfaces, RAM, CPU POWER, and the DAW have all become relatively affordable compared to where things were say 15 years or even 10 years ago. Thins have been getting better and better and now this... I'll say again, at this point, if Cakewalk were to make Platinum for Mac... and it was an affordable cross grade, I'd likely switch. I don't much like Apple but hey, if MS is going to become a clumsy Apple with a longer reach and fatter fingers... what reason do I have to stay with Windows. It looks to me like MS is doing a cheap imitation of Apple. I don't like cheap imitations and I am ALWAYS suspicious when something is "free". I learned decades ago that NOTHING is EVER free. There is always a cost or a catch. I'm not yet sure what it is or why but I am WAY to cynical to believe that it is just a better OS and they want us to have it. It is bait and there is a hook in it somewhere.
It seems like a great time for someone with the money to come out with a workable new OS that will run either iOS, Mac, Android, and Windows applications.
Did you notice how MS is now calling programs APPs?  Something (besides me) stinks.
 
If you know a link to a 123/ABC sort of how to page for changing the updates in W-10, I would love to see it. Is the security something I should worry about? I don't trust Google either and won't use Chrome, Google search is enough... probably too much. I use "in Private" a good bit but I doubt it does anything other than not store history or cookies. I'm afraid to run CCLeaner on W-10. I use Malwarebytes Premium but sometimes have to tweak it on/off. I prefer to be my own "hall monitor".
 
So bottom line, turn WIFI off when doing music... figure out how to change updates to manual, but that violates the agreement and once past the 30 day rollback to W-7 period, couldn't MS tell me to change it back or lock me down? (if they wanted to?)

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#16
ampfixer
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/19 15:52:30 (permalink)
CCleaner runs fine under Win 10. I have the paid versions of it and Malwarebytes. There is a little glitch with CCleaner and Win 10. The registry cleaner finds 2 problems in Win 10 and although it says it will fix them, they keep coming back. The same 2 files are persistent and always show up as a registry error.
 
If you are on Win 10 Pro you can set it up so that it notifies you that you need updates but won't install them until you give the ok. I do miss the break down of updates as optional, important, critical etc. Now all updates are the same. In fact updates that used to be silent are now going through with a notification. For example Windows defender used to get a database update every day in the background, with no notification. Now it nags me and says an update is required.

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#17
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/20 01:07:04 (permalink)
I would totally avoid cccleaner for at least six months esp the registry clean. The developers are just getting used to the new OS themselves and the app is probably dealing with your OS like it is windows 8.x. I think it's more likely to corrupt things right now (I've seen it happen before when updating from win7 to win8). I would use these sort of utils sparingly anyway. They have their place though in some scenarios.

Malwarebytes rocks!

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#18
ampfixer
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/20 14:28:26 (permalink)
THere are issues beginning to pop up. CCleaner doesn't want to clean files created by MS Edge, and Edge creates some massive multi-gig data files. I avoid it and Explorer yet there are always some files to clean. It's the sneakiest windows ever but I've given up caring. After spending some time with 10, 7 feels kind of clunky.

Regards, John 
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#19
jbow
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/20 17:12:55 (permalink)
Well, so much for fast startup. I usually just close my laptop lid and let it sleep. This time... NO DESKTOP. I had to do a hard reboot and guess what.. it all took over 10 minutes to boot. Guess why... because of updates. After it started to come back on I was told to "not shut it off" because it was installing updates. I needed some business info but had to wait because Microsoft thinks that their priorities trump mine. I am getting really sick of this really fast. Of course I don't know how to get MS's attention to tell them. Maybe I'll just roll back to W-7. It isn't what I want to do but if they are going to try and control what I do and when I do it... well, that isn't OK. I downloaded the 'troubleshooter' and hid one update for a printer I no longer use but heck, I don't know if it will stay hidden or not.
I want my computer OS to open and work when I need it, not after MS get's done doing things to it.
They REALLY need to address this, I cannot be the only one who is unhappy with this. I guess the question is, will there be enough people who are unhappy enough with it to not take it or will we just be good sheep and move along.
 
ARRRGGGHHHH..... isn't there enough frustration in life without this crap.
 
PLEASE... Cakewalk, make a MAC version of Platinum. I will use get a MacBook and give this perfectly fine computer to my grand daughter.
 
...or will I be going from the proverbial frying pan into the fire?
 
Why is there just Windows and "Lion, Leopard, or whatever"??? Isn't this a good time for a third option that is user friendly, non-invasive, and affordable??
 
Where can I complain to MS, someplace that it might get past some guy in India named Bob or Peggy??
 
Do you think the government is behind this. Usually things this invasive come from some government agency... but what do I know, I guess I am a "wingnut" now.  
 
OH... question: Do I now need to shut down my computer every night now? I always thought that letting it sleep was ultimately better for it. I don't guess it is like turning an amp with no "standby" switch on/off and slamming the power tubes with 115 volts every time... but I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter anymore or maybe it never did. This is extremely aggravating and frustrating. I bought this computer and I guess since I didn't have to pay for W-10 that gives them a leg to stand on saying it doesn't belong to me because I did not buy it... I KNEW there was a string attached!!!! HAH!
post edited by jbow - 2015/08/20 17:26:10

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#20
jbow
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/20 17:20:01 (permalink)
I'll not run CCLeaner... thanks.
 
Color me PI55ED...
 
 

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#21
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/20 19:06:59 (permalink)
Two of the most recent security patches are nuking computers.
 
Lots of stupid:
https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+10+automatic+updates+problems&biw=1536&bih=730&tbs=qdr:m&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0CEYQsQRqFQoTCMTC_ZXZuMcCFQyagAods6gNyQ
 
As one of the articles states, WHEN will the MS idiots fix this, not IF.
#22
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/21 00:13:45 (permalink)
jbow
OH... question: Do I now need to shut down my computer every night now? I always thought that letting it sleep was ultimately better for it. I don't guess it is like turning an amp with no "standby" switch on/off and slamming the power tubes with 115 volts every time... but I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter anymore or maybe it never did. This is extremely aggravating and frustrating. I bought this computer and I guess since I didn't have to pay for W-10 that gives them a leg to stand on saying it doesn't belong to me because I did not buy it... I KNEW there was a string attached!!!! HAH!



Shutdown saves power, gets rid of any "gunk" in the memory that's floating around, and allows updates to install correctly. Also moving part do tend to wear out. So yup recommended. It's not an amp 

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#23
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/21 00:18:25 (permalink)

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#24
jbow
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/21 09:07:13 (permalink)
My Son-in-law works for Google. I called his yesterday to get his take on this. He said no one around work had been talking about it. He also told me how to fix it. (I don't know how well it fixes it because I just made the changes) but.
Go to the Window icon on the bottom left, metro I suppose.
On the bottom left just above Power is Settings, go to Settings.
At the upper right of the settings page is a search box.
Type in: windows update.
Choose: advanced windows update options
Choose Notify to reschedule start.
 
You can also choose to get or not get other MS products when you update windows.
You can see all the installed updates and have an option to uninstall any of them under: View your update history.
 
 
So, if you choose to be notified of the time, I suppose you can stop it, IDK... but at least you will have more control and can uninstall, backup, and restore from there. I also chose to not let updates be network wide from one computer to another on the network... I never heard of that!
 
More: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2953010/windows/how-to-schedule-your-windows-10-updates.html
 
I also read somewhere how to hack the registry to add a manual update option but I'm not sure I want to do that.
 
Maybe this will help.
 
J
 
post edited by jbow - 2015/08/21 09:17:30

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#25
jbow
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/21 10:27:06 (permalink)
Stop getting automatic driver updates from MS: http://www.askvg.com/windows-tip-search-and-install-device-drivers-from-windows-update-only-if-its-not-found-on-local-hard-disk/
 
More ways to stop automatic updates: http://www.askvg.com/fixing-windows-10-automatic-updates-install-problem/
The metered WIFI looks interesting but I am not sure. I still want to be able to get important updates and security updates...
 
J

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#26
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/21 17:08:52 (permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
 
Well....
 



 
Real clever.
 
The link to the full search was to demonstrate the extent of the problem.
 
Obviously you don't get it.
post edited by YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson - 2015/08/21 17:16:56
#27
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/21 18:47:29 (permalink)
Well then you didn't exactly demonstrate it. A list of links you probably never ever read. You didn't even bother to put quotes around it to make it into a phrase.

Here's proof that it is the end of the world tomorrow by your journalism standards:

https://www.google.co.uk/...mp;espv=1&ie=UTF-8
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/21 19:41:05

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#28
kevinwal
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/26 11:03:38 (permalink)
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Two of the most recent security patches are nuking computers.
 
Lots of stupid:
https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+10+automatic+updates+problems&biw=1536&bih=730&tbs=qdr:m&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0CEYQsQRqFQoTCMTC_ZXZuMcCFQyagAods6gNyQ
 
As one of the articles states, WHEN will the MS idiots fix this, not IF.


Wow. I get that you don't like Windows 10 and your comments certainly suggest a somewhat intense dislike for Microsoft in general. Like it or not, Sonar runs exclusively on Windows and that is unlikely to change, ever. And like it or not, Windows 10 is the current and future flagship OS; it ain't going anywhere either and whether it's now or in the distant future, Windows 10 is in the future of every single Sonar user on the planet.
 
Given all that, imho your posts would be much more useful and perhaps even carry more weight to more people if you offered some solutions or workarounds along with the MS bashing. Please don't get me wrong, I am quite entertained by your posts and often learn a bit here and there from them after I filter out the invective, and I certainly support your right to hate whomever or whatever you want, and to shout it from the rooftops if that's your thing.
 
I'm just saying that your posts would be even more useful if rather than posting blanket Google searches obviously intended to return results designed to create an overall impression of nuclear disaster, you identified specific issues DAW users might be likely to face and perhaps even some actionable suggestions to prevent or resolve them. You know, just sweeten things up a little to sort of balance out the relentless hate and maybe in the process help some fellow musicians out of a potentially tough jam.
 
Just imho.
 
#29
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: W10: mandatory auto updates already causing big problems 2015/08/26 16:21:15 (permalink)
I actually don't mind an alternative opinion if the facts are clearly delivered.. Sadly not in this case.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#30
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