Helpful ReplyChanging buffers - could there be a better way? SORTED

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LJB
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2015/08/02 05:57:30 (permalink)

Changing buffers - could there be a better way? SORTED

I run an RME HDSP9652 card on Win 7x64 and when composing and final-mixing for film I am constantly changing between my composing project and my mixing project. I find in S-Plat I have to quit Sonar entirely and re-open the program in order for the buffers to clear. If I just close the project, change the buffer and then open the next project the sound is totally garbled.
 
Is that something that the Bakers can address, or do the driver manufacturers have to handle this issue?
 
Nice work on GlassCow or whatever it's called, BTW. It runs well! :O)
 
L.
post edited by LJB - 2015/08/03 02:18:43

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#1
bitman
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 08:16:27 (permalink)
Historically if I change the asio buffers on my aging Terratec EWS88D card (We're goin' down together btw)
I experience buffer issues too. When I press space, I get a short growl then a drop out.
 
No point in trying to make Cakewalk care about an interface the Terratec denies is their child so I restart and soldier on.
 
#2
Adq
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 08:33:37 (permalink)
It sounds strange for me. I use Focusrite Scarlett 8i6. When I change buffer I have dropout, and I only have to start Audio Engine again and all is working fine.
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ChazEd
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 08:42:32 (permalink)
Disabling audio engine, change latency, then re-enabling audio engine doesn't work?
 
I did a quick test and works ok: no dropout and strange sounds with asio4all.
 
Latency from 128 to 1024 samples, and back to 128.

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Skyline_UK
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 08:53:16 (permalink)
Thanks for posting this LJB - it's my biggest gripe!
I have the Hammerfall AIO card. I'm a guitarist so when I'm using a plugin like S-Gear or GuitarRig I change to 64 but then if I want to mix or use Melodyne I need to switch to 1024. Surely with all the 'whizz-bangery' software techniques around these days we should be able to simply click and toggle between the two rather than pulling up Preferences, etc. I also have to exit and reload Sonar to make the changed buffers take affect, although I hadn't twigged the above re. switching off/on the audio engine and need to give it a try.
All VERY primitive in terms of workflow though. 

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mettelus
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 09:31:17 (permalink)
I guess a bit of this is on both sides of the fence. Although SONAR can handshake with interfaces, it is up to the interface to accept it (when locked) and respond appropriately. SONAR has no ability to "force" the interface to do anything it is not designed for (purge buffers, etc.). In the case of ASIO, the handshake comes from the interface, but similar, and again what is happening inside the interface is mostly its territory.
 
In my case, Focusrite recommends disengaging (i.e. closing any application using it) when adjusting buffers; but I do this quite often with SONAR open and a project loaded. SONAR's audio engine will drop out occasionally when doing so, but has been a simple "turn the audio engine back on" scenario. I think that SONAR is intercepting the "disengaging" part by doing so when required, but saves me any forced close/reopen of SONAR by doing so.

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tlw
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 15:58:08 (permalink)
I can change buffers for my UFX without problems. Sonar just stops and re-starts the audio engine.

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John
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 16:02:42 (permalink)
ChazEd
Disabling audio engine, change latency, then re-enabling audio engine doesn't work?
 
I did a quick test and works ok: no dropout and strange sounds with asio4all.
 
Latency from 128 to 1024 samples, and back to 128.


ASIO4all is a wrapper that uses the Windows driver such as WDM or even MME. It is not an ASIO driver it just looks as if it is to a host. There is no good reason to use it with Sonar.

Best
John
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Larry Jones
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 16:16:32 (permalink)
I see there are no ASIO drivers for your card. RME does have a WDM driver download. Have you tried that? Many users have had many problems with ASIO4ALL.
 
On my M-Audio PCI card I experienced a ~30 second delay when changing buffer size with Sonar running, but after that everything was fine. On my Scarlett 6i6 there are inconsistent delays/dropouts/stutters, but it rights itself without having to close Sonar. Sometimes I manually stop and start the Sonar audio engine.
 
I think your problem might be ASIO4ALL.

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#9
tlw
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 19:24:00 (permalink)
Are you using the RME ASIO driver with the HDSP?

If not, the ASIO driver for HDSP cards can be downloaded from here:

http://www.rme-audio.de/e...loads/driver/hdspe.php

The page says it's a WDM driver but if you click on the link the text that comes up says there's WDM, WDM-KS and ASIO drivers in the package. It might be a good idea to do a firmware uograde if there's one available.

If you are using the RME ASIO driver it might be worth while contacting RME support about the problem. They usually seem helpful.

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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 20:18:48 (permalink)
Hmm how are you changing the buffer size? If you are using ASIO and you change it from the ASIO control panel (opened from SONAR) then the ASIO driver sends back a notification to SONAR and we adjust to the new buffer size.
This definitely works for most interfaces including other RME devices. Not sure about the Hammerfall.
Are you using ASIO drivers? If SONAR Isn't responding to changing the buffer size it would imply that we never got a notification that the size changed.
One thing you can try is open preferences | configuration file and click "reload configuration". That should force SONAR to reload the driver without having to restart.

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Larry Jones
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/02 21:41:21 (permalink)
tlw
Are you using the RME ASIO driver with the HDSP?

If not, the ASIO driver for HDSP cards can be downloaded from here:

http://www.rme-audio.de/e...loads/driver/hdspe.php

The page says it's a WDM driver but if you click on the link the text that comes up says there's WDM, WDM-KS and ASIO drivers in the package. It might be a good idea to do a firmware uograde if there's one available.

If you are using the RME ASIO driver it might be worth while contacting RME support about the problem. They usually seem helpful.

Oops. Good pull, Tim I looked at the RME download page but didn't click the link before posting. Now I wonder why the OP would use ASIO4ALL when the manufacturer has a driver available?
 
[EDIT: I didn't mean to address my ASIO4ALL comments to the original poster.]
post edited by Larry Jones - 2015/08/03 02:30:00

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#12
LJB
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/03 02:02:30 (permalink)
Thanks for the input guys.
 
I always use the latest and greatest RME drivers, always. And always ASIO (is there any other type?!?! :O) Personally, I dabbled with ASIO4ALL a few times long ago with little success. RME cards want their dedicated drivers - it's why people buy that brand.
 
In the past (older Sonar versions), it has sometimes been fine, but mostly I have to close Sonar to change buffers properly.
I click on hidden icons, bottom right of the Windows desktop, open the RME driver box, and change the buffer size. It's the fastest way to do it AFAIK.
 
Should I rather be opening the RME driver box from Sonar Prefs?
 
L.

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LJB
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) SORTED 2015/08/03 02:14:40 (permalink)
AHA, OK - I just tried changing it from the Sonar Prefs and that works perfectly. So Sonar has to change the RME driver, not the other way around. Glad that's sorted.
 
Can we get little floating buffer toggle menu now? :o)  I'm the KING of shortcuts, ya know...

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) 2015/08/03 02:21:16 (permalink)
LJB
 
Should I rather be opening the RME driver box from Sonar Prefs?
 


I really think you should. I always do it from Sonar Prefs and it works fine (using Roland interfaces) ... and it did not like me fiddling with settings externally ...
 
BTW, hitting "P" to get to the Sonar preferences is much quicker than opening anything external ...

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) SORTED 2015/08/03 02:23:13 (permalink)
LJB
AHA, OK - I just tried changing it from the Sonar Prefs and that works perfectly. So Sonar has to change the RME driver, not the other way around. Glad that's sorted.
 
Can we get little floating buffer toggle menu now? :o)  I'm the KING of shortcuts, ya know...




You could try the new voice command thingy in win10 ;-) ... try saying something "increase that bl**dy buffer, you d*rk"

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#16
LJB
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) SORTED 2015/08/03 02:59:51 (permalink)
Thanks bro - I'll be sure to scream it out loud while looking up at some spot on the ceiling. Can't wait to see my clients' faces!

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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Changing buffers - could there be a better way? (Garbled Audio etc) SORTED 2015/08/03 06:59:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/08/03 20:46:31
LJB
AHA, OK - I just tried changing it from the Sonar Prefs and that works perfectly. So Sonar has to change the RME driver, not the other way around. Glad that's sorted.
Can we get little floating buffer toggle menu now? :o)  I'm the KING of shortcuts, ya know...



Yes you should do it from SONAR since the ASIO dll is loaded by SONAR. ASIO drivers are handled by an ASIO dll and each client for the device loads its own instance of the dll. If you change it from another place probably the device fails to notify all clients. I will tell RME about it - I would assume that a driver should notify all its clients if one of them changes the global buffer size. Either that or it would need to support per client buffer sizes (which is a lot harder)

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