Problem getting sound from Sonar using Kontakt

I'm full of good will and patience, but so far I still cannot get this one to play. Switched sound card to LogiLink® USB Soundcard UA0053 (shown as C-Media USB Headphone Set) and getting the "Out: 2x 44.1-48kHz, 16Bits Status: Unavailable with a red X next to it in the Asio4All panel. Again, the input meters show the signal transmitted from Kontakt - in my case channel 3 - to its respective routed track in Sonar, but no sound comes out. I don't even have a clue which side to approach the problem from... I guess I should take this into a new thread...
 
edited by host: split topic and changed title

SF_Green
Welcome. First, yes go ahead and start a new thread listing your problem. It will help if you give a fairly complete listing of your system specs. One thing you should try right away is ditching ASIO4ALL. I haven't tried using it but have seen numerous posts from people here who know what they are talking about that say it's very problematic. Download the latest drivers from your soundcard manufacturer's website and try using those. But do a new thread too. There are lots of nice helpful people here who will help you get up and running. Good luck!

completely agreed with SF - when you have a soundcard which HAS it's own native ASIO drivers, never use ASIO4ALL on it!  always use the soundcards' native ASIO drivers.
 
also, most people looking to help troubleshoot problems are not going to look in a thread titled "Sonar X1 LE Upgrade" so a new thread is appropriate.
 
wait...I can do that for you!
 
Also, here is a tutorial on getting Kontakt outputs set correctly.  it was written for Kontakt 4, IIRC, but it doesn't matter, they both work the same for output settings.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2383017
 

OK. I did a general cleaning of my PC:
- I removed trials of older DAWs to avoid any potential interference with their own supplied drivers (left only software I still have active projects in)
- I completely uninstalled IDT High Definition Audio Codec (driver for my integrated sound card I can't find the model of anywhere), to have just a single device available in Asio4ALL, to exclude any conflict (this seems to be the right thing because I got rid of the error: "The following audio output devices used by this project are not available", with my integrated sound card output shown in the Missing Devices list).
 
Current configuration:

HARDWARE:
- Dell Inspiron N5110 (Q15R)
- cpu i7-2670
- graphics: Intel HD Graphics Family (integrated) and GeForce 525M (additional)
- RAM 8GB (seems low but was never too low for me)
- LogiLink UA0053 Sound Card (a $5 Chinese USB stick but still better than the integrated one)

SYSTEM AND DRIVERS:
- Win7 HP Home SP1
- C-Media USB Headphone Set (this is how UA0053 is shown as).
- ASIO4All to emulate drivers for any of the two above

DAW AND RELATED:
- Sonar Artist (Demo)
- Reaper 4.78 x64 (Trial)
- Sibelius 7.5 (Full)
- Kontakt Player 5 (to be hosted by the three above)



After the equipment reduction I again tried to follow the tutorial suggested above. At the part: "you need to go to your first MIDI track and select its output to Kontakt", there is no such option. Just the "Master" and the "Asio4All USB Headphone Set" (I read this as "USB sound card driven by the ASIO4All emulator"). So still, I have:
- in Kontakt: some EWQL instruments loaded, channel 1 set to stereo 1 (1/2), channel 2 set to stereo 2 (3/4), channel 3 set to stereo 3 (5/6) .... and following the rule of "channel N to stereo N ( 2N-1 / 2N ), and sound comes out of speakers when I hit the virtual keyboard of Kontakt for each instrument
- in Sonar: signal of channel 1 properly popping up at track 1, signal of channel 2 popping up at track 2, signal of channel 3 popping up at track 3 ... signal N at track N.

So all seems to be routed as supposed. But when I hit the piano roll view keyboard, no sound comes out.
 
I opened my older X1 LE project, that one was routed a bit differently - all midi tracks pointing to three instrument host tracks - and it works fine. So maybe I should just follow this old known way... But I'm a bit confused because I've seen a much simplier way which should just work, as shown in the video tutorials like this one:
 
(edit: apparently the link gets rejected, I meant "Multi-out Kontakt Routing Pt. 1" by DAWGURU)
 
Unfortunately, all these tutorials, no matter if amateur or official, seem to assume certain things as obvious. This is like putting together a huge jigsaw without a reference image. The inability to save the project doesn't help either. I already had a crash and had to start over. Maybe you should consider a "save limit" for trial versions, e.g. every 1 hour or so :P
 
EDIT:
 
In the meantime I examined that old project imported from X1 LE. It begins with three tracks with the keyboard icon next to them. I assume this means "instrument host track" but I'm not sure, couldn't find a confirmation. These are:
- Track 1. Kontakt5 (first instance),
- Track 2. Kontakt5 (second instance)
- Track 3. Kontakt5 (third instance).
Inputs for these three are set to omni, outputs to master, everything else is unchanged.
Then a whole bunch of tracks follows, with the plug icon next to them and I assum0e this means "MIDI track". So these are MIDI sources for subsequent channels of subsequent Kontakt instances, like:
- Track 4. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 1. Channel 1.
- Track 5. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 1. Channel 2.
- Track 6. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 1. Channel 3.
This goes down to track 14, the last one for Kontakt 5 1. Then switches to second instrument:
- Track 15. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 2. Channel 1.
- Track 16. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 2. Channel 2.
- Track 17. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 2. Channel 3.
Thsi goes down to track 24, the last one for Kontakt 5 2. Third instance follows the same pattern:
- Track 25. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 3. Channel 1.
- Track 26. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 3. Channel 2.
- Track 27. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 3. Channel 3.
Until the last track for this instrument.
 
This seems clear to me. The point still remains why the recommended way doesn't work. If I really need to have the instrument host tracks, these new tutorials say nothing about it, and I just would like to know if using them is trying to complicate too much or not. Thanks for all help already given :)

Bob, last time you did a tutorial I copied it and uploaded it to my Onedrive. Listed there as
Kontakt5 in Sonar.docx it will save you typing it out time and again.

Thanks, Mike - this one was more of a routing assignment in Sonar exercise.  I never even went close to multiple instruments in a single instance of Kontakt - could have used any synth for the audio/midi routing walk through.
 
It IS good to know, though, that you DO have some of that stuff saved off, because I DO recall going over a few different things in the past - several times.  Good thing I can type.....
 
Bob Bone
 

I am happy you were able to get things to play - that was the goal.  I hadn't considered the absence of Pro Channel, and of course it makes sense to skip the parts that didn't apply.
 
The thing with ASIO4ALL is that it is a band-aid approach to drivers, and has earned a reputation as something that sort of works, sometimes, but also will not work at other times (even it is only installed but not even used).
 
Most audio interfaces seem to work their best when running in ASIO mode, and ASIO4ALL pretends to be ASIO when an audio interface is looking at it and routing things to it for it to process.  But ASIO4ALL is actually built on the WDM drivers as its base, with the ASIO bits floating about, ready to fool the interface or music application into thinking it is talking with an ASIO-mode set of drivers.
 
I have picked up a couple of Focusrite 2i2 audio interfaces that I am quite happy with, for a couple of friends of mine, and they have no troubles using them.  One has Windows 7, and the other has Windows 8.1, both in 64-bit fashion.  One of those seems to be around $150 usd these days.  They seem quite reliable and work well, with active development going into their drivers, which means it looks like they will be around for a while.
 
Ultimately, which audio interface you select will depend on how many inputs/outputs, possibly phantom power, mic pre-amps, analog/digital converter quality, driver availability, and maybe other reasons.  For a good solid 2-channel input audio interface, I like these.  There is another made by Yamaha Steinberg that seems to be in the same cost range, and seems to work OK, as well.
 
And, as far as some of your points from your post above, the midi channel of Omni or None is frequently used to software to both mean to accept midi data from ANY midi channel or source, rather than restricting the midi data to come from a particular channel on a particular midi controller.  And, since most midi controllers transmit on midi channel 1 by default, and Kontakt sets the midi channel its first loaded instrument to 1, that also makes it easy for it all to just 'work'.
 
I recommend you learn about the stuff I covered, and maybe some video or manual-based tutorials on setting up routing assignments, which will come in handy as you begin adding additional tracks and instances, and maybe loading more instruments into a single instance of Kontakt, etc........
 
Best of luck to you - and again, VERY happy you have some sound now.  THese forums have a bunch of really helpful folks, so hang in there, try to do some homework, ask for help when you need it, and help others when you can.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

OK - congrats on having additional players.  I happen to have a couple of audio interfaces - one is basic and quite old (9 years), and still going strong - an old Native Instruments Kore 1 audio interface, and it has 2 inputs (both are 1/4" only), and also 1/4" outputs.  But it serves its purpose for midi-based projects, or for pieces of projects where I am only adding mostly midi, maybe a guitar or 2.
 
The other audio interface I use is a Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL, and it has 8 inputs, all with XRL and 1/4" input ports, etc.  I use that when recording a few folks at the same time.  I don't really do any recording of giant acoustic drum kits, mostly because I don't feel like getting all the mics I would need, and because I don't feel like spending the day deciding between 'this' crash cymbal mic placement, versus 'that' one, etc.  I have seen engineers go from teenagers through retirement in a single day, from having to get an acoustic drum set up with mics 'just the way the drummer wants it'.  (kidding, but not by much - hee hee).
 
I usually have the drummer do his own recording and ship things to me - works well.
 
Anyways, when you are researching whatever interface you end up with, make sure it will work with your version of Windows - and ideally, see that they are keeping driver development going.  Lots of times, music stores will start dumping audio interfaces on quick sales, once they realize driver development has stopped for a given interface model, as that means it will at some point just disappear from the market, as it will someday not have drivers needed for some future version of Windows.  Just do your homework, and maybe post some of the ones you are considering here in the forums (hardware), looking for input from some of the forum folks - that would be helpful.
 
Midi tracks themselves have NO audio data on them ZERO.  That's not how they work.  Midi stands for: Musical Instrument Digital Interface, and is really sort of a language, where any device that is midi-capable can transmit and receive these midi 'messages' or events, and then it is up to each device to process/react to those data events.
 
So, a midi track will contain a bunch of little 'event' entries, to store the INFORMATION about an event, but not any AUDIO associated with the event.  For example, each time you play a key on your midi controller, and it is recorded on the midi track, it is the information ABOUT what happened that gets saved.  So there will be a midi event recording that you played, for example, C3 (midi notes range from C1 to whatever is 127 notes further up, C#1, D1, D#1, E1, F1, etc) and it will also record an event when you STOP playing that C3 note, which would be a 'note off' event.  Other information stored could be the velocity you played that note at (also a range from 0-127), as well as patch and bank information.  Other types of events are called Continuous Controller (CC) events, such as mod wheel data, pitch bend data, volume data, etc.....
 
So, if all of that 'event' information is captured on a midi track, when you play that midi track back, you sent that data to some sort of sound generator (Kontakt), which can interpret and process that data, and generate audio output.  Now, that audio output will never be a part of the midi data, the midi data just tells Kontakt  - hey - play these notes for how long, and play them this hard, and have the sustain pedal on for some of those notes, and throw in a pitch bend up 2 half steps between this note and that note, and throw insome mod wheel modulation to that preset - which may give you a Leslie effect for an organ patch, etc....
 
But what make all of the above work is the ROUTING that you set up in Sonar, to tell Sonar to send any trggered events (notes on your controller, sustain pedal, etc.) to a particular soft synth instance of Kontakt, which has a particular instrument (sound) loaded.  Then Kontakt will receive all of those midi events, and will process them, creating audio.  Then, based on how you have the output within Kontakt routed, it will get sent out through one set of Kontakt audio outputs.  But, you need to route that audio output to your audio interface, so you ROUTE the Kontakt audio output to become INPUT on an audio track, which allows you to control panning, volume, effects, etc, and then you send the audio back out from the audio track to go to the Master Bus, which then ROUTES all of the audio to your audio interface.
 
ROUTING makes the world go around, in the recording world.
Oh, with regard to the ascending output on Kontakt - Kontakt, by default, will automatically increment the midi channel for each instrument you load into the same instance of Kontakt.  So, if in 1 Kontakt instance, you load: bass, piano, violin, strings, and organ, then Kontakt will by default set those up to output to the following midi channels: bass=1, piano=2. violin=3, strings=4, organ=5.  All audio for all of the instruments will be sent to the same single audio output channels (1/2), which will NOT be what you really want.
 
Think about it - if all of the above were sent to a single pair of audio outputs, then you would never effectively be able to split those sounds apart to use all of the cool stuff in Sonar, like panning, effects, volume, parallel compression, because all the audio would be lumped together.
 
SOOOOO, what you want to learn about, and do, is to understand how to keep all the midi data so that piano events only end up triggering piano sounds in Kontakt, and bass note midi events only produce bass sounds coming back out of Kontakt, etc.  Additionally, you need to learn how to separate the audio outputs for each loaded instrument in Kontakt, so that each instrument gets routed to its own set of audio output channels coming from Kontakt's Output Section.
 
Keeping the midi separate is pretty easy.  You would insert one midi track for each of your loaded instruments for that Kontakt instance, so in the above example, you would insert a total of FIVE midi tracks.  You would set each midi track to point to the same Kontakt instance in the midi Output at the bottom of each midi track, and you would also make a slight change to another parameter of each of those midi tracks.  Located just under the FX Bin box for each midi track, is a Midi Output Channel assignment parameter.  You need to set that Midi Output Channel number to match the instrument that track's midi data will be for, so the Bass midi track would be set to midi channel 1, the Piano midi track would be set to Midi Output Channel 2, , the Violin midi track would get channel 3, strings midi track would bet channel 4, and the organ midi track would get midi channel 5.
 
OK, so with the above, all of the MIDI stuff is done, you would now have to split the Kontakt output channels so that each instrument gets its own output channels, and then get the correct audio track routing assignments to point each audio track to the correct outputs from the Kontakt instance.
 
I will have to come back for that - I have to run to the store for a while, and get some car work done.  I written this up in the past - hopefully some helpful person can paste in a link to one of me write-ups on how I use the Kontakt Batch Functions to set up the output section output channels for the instruments, and get the audio tracks routed, etc.....   (please?)
 
That is the last piece - so hang in there - we got your back with this.
 
If nobody is able to do that posting of my earlier info on it, I will do it when I get back.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
 

You want to route the Kontakt audio from multiple instruments in a single Kontakt instance to their own separate audio tracks, so that you can retain control over individual sounds separately.  A bass would not need the same EQ as a violin, etc., and if you have them all going to the same audio track, you could never apply those effects outside of Kontakt, or whatever synth you are using.
 
It is MUCH better to split them within a given Kontakt instance, to have their own audio outputs, then set up separate audio and midi tracks in Sonar for each instrument, and set the midi channels accordingly and the audio routing assignments from each audio track to pick up the correct audio outputs from that instrument from the Kontakt instance.
 
Hope that helps, 
 
Bob Bone