vanceen
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Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
Here's the steps:
1. Insert a Master bus into a project if it doesn't already have one
2. Insert a second bus (Bus B)
3. Click on the + button beside Sends on the Master bus. Bus B does not appear as a selection
Clicking Sends on Bus B shows Master as an option. If you create a third bus (Bus C), Busses B and C can see each other and Master, but Sends on the Master bus can't see Bus B or Bus C
Every track correctly shows every bus as Sends options.
You can only see another bus in the Master Sends list if you:
1. Click on the + button beside Sends on the Master bus
2. Select New Stereo Bus. Now the Master Sends list shows the newly created bus.
ALSO, click on the + next to Sends on the Master bus, select Insert Send Assistant, then select New Bus. Master does not appear as a choice for the Output of the new bus.
I'm not 100% positive this is new to Gloucester, but I don't remember it happening before. Obviously, this is a real nuisance if, like me, you use a lot of bus routing.
Can anyone reproduce this?
Thanks.
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scook
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:08:49
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Yes, it has worked that way since at least X1.
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vanceen
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:24:29
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Thanks, scook..
Does "worked that way" suggest that this is somehow a feature rather than a bug?
I can't see the advantage at all.
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Wookiee
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:25:08
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I see what you are saying but I also think that what you are asking for would cause a feedback loop.
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Razorwit
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:43:15
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Hi Vanceen,
I think the problem is that it would create a loop. If you have a bus in a project that is designated as a Master, all other tracks and busses will route to that bus by default. So if you add a new bus, that new bus will (again, by default) have it's destination set to the Master bus. You won't be able to route from the Master bus to the new bus because Sonar will not let you create a routing loop.
If you set the destination on the new bus to be something that does not end up at the Master, like a hardware out, you should be able to select it as a destination on the Master.
Dean
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vanceen
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:45:00
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Hmm... Say you want a touch of reverb for the overall project, as a bit of "glue". You could insert a reverb into master FX or ProChannel, but usually the result is way too wet, and you have to turn the dry/wet balance on the effect way down to get a sensible result. This makes it hard to control. So what I usually do is set up a bus and put the reverb on the new bus. Then I route the Master signal to the reverb bus through a Send, and route it back to the Master. Then I can control the amount of reverb with the fader on the reverb bus. Much easier to handle. I've never had a feedback problem doing this. And, as I indicated in my post, it's certainly possible to do it, just not in a straightforward way. I've been doing a lot of this on an album I'm working on; I'm surprise to hear that it's worked this way for a while, but I've been wrong before. I know you could route the reverb bus to the main outs of your audio interface. But I like to have the Master fader as the final, one fader to rule them all. I suppose you could achieve the same thing by making all the Master sends post-fader, but I want to do it My Way. Oh well...
post edited by vanceen - 2015/08/14 14:07:44
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Keni
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:46:25
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It may be a good idea to think about the looped/feedback issue. If you direct a subs output to another, and this other then is sending back into the sub, you're feeding the already affected track back into itself and thereby effecting the affected data and continuously increasing this data... If you need a sub for the master for some reason, the sub would need to be directed to a different output than what you have labeled as master in your given scenario...
post edited by Keni - 2015/08/14 13:55:17
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vanceen
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 13:51:13
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Thanks to all for your replies.
I see that I need to rethink how I've been doing this. You're all right, it's better to avoid loops, even if they haven't bitten me so far.
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scook
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 14:12:49
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Start a new blank project
Add 3 buses
Route B and C to A
Create a send from B to C
Set B as the Default Bus
Save as a template.
This sets up A as the Final Bus
B is the default Master bus as far as the tracks are concerned
and C is the send from the Master to the Final Bus
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brundlefly
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 14:35:59
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Keni
If you need a sub for the master for some reason, the sub would need to be directed to a different output than what you have labeled as master in your given scenario...
+1 Bottom line: You can't send to a bus that will ultimately route back to the source (Master in this case) and hit the send again, creating a feedback loop. The send bus can route to the same physical output as Master, but it would have to be in parallel, not via the Master.
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stxx
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 16:34:15
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You need to use a "virtual Master buss" where you put route ALL your tracks and then route that to the actual master. Feedback loop is exactly what you would get and Sonar forces that prevention. I actually have a 3rd buss that I have a heavy compressor running and send the Vmaster to that and blend in a little parallel comp of the whole mix and send the Vmast and the Comp Mast to the REAL Master. Where you put your master buss effects (compression, EQ etc) would depend on what you do. I personally would never add reverb to the whole mix util you master it (if then even). Therefore, I still have my master bus compression on the REAL master but this configuration allows the flexibility and prevents feedback loops
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vanceen
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 16:56:05
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Again, thanks all. Very useful suggestions.
I actually have been able to set up a bus that outputs back to Master when a send comes to it from the master. So a loop is not strictly forbidden. Maybe that's the bug.
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Anderton
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Re: Gloucester: Master Bus "Sends" Can't See Other Buses
2015/08/14 18:31:58
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vanceen
Hmm...
Say you want a touch of reverb for the overall project, as a bit of "glue". You could insert a reverb into master FX or ProChannel, but usually the result is way too wet, and you have to turn the dry/wet balance on the effect way down to get a sensible result. This makes it hard to control.
So what I usually do is set up a bus and put the reverb on the new bus. Then I route the Master signal to the reverb bus through a Send, and route it back to the Master. Then I can control the amount of reverb with the fader on the reverb bus. Much easier to handle.
Here's my trick for this kind of thing, although I generally don't use it for reverb but for more nefarious purposes. - Bounce down my tracks to two tracks. That's the final mix.
- Bounce down again to two more tracks. Typically, I'll squash the living crap out of it and boost the bass and treble. Then I mix this at like -20 dB or so behind the "real" mix. Adds an interesting subliminal effect.
- These both go out the master if I need that, otherwise I just bounce them together for the final stereo mix.
Instead of squashing and boosting, you could create a reverb track with reverb sound only and adjust the volume as desired. Better yet, if you want a reverb splash after a snare hit or something, you could raise the level of the reverb track in that spot, automate it so there's more reverb at the beginning as the song builds and less at the end, etc.
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