External Hard drive

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keneds
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2015/08/22 08:57:13 (permalink)

External Hard drive

I recently scored a 4 TB external storage device.....How can i incorporate this into my daw to free up some hard drive space on my computer and have it work with my sonar projects? I dont want to just hook it up without getting some advice on how i can utilize this properly with sonar.  Thx, Ken

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    slartabartfast
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/22 12:31:11 (permalink)
    Without knowing more about the capability and connection of the external the only thing anyone can safely say for this drive is to move all of your files that do not require immediate access to it for backup storage. That is what these huge drives are really designed for. Any project file that you are not using can be moved for sure, just move them back to a fast drive when you need to open them. You might be able to get acceptable real time performance using your USB 3 or eSATA if the drive will connect that way.
    post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/08/22 12:41:43
    #2
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/22 13:09:32 (permalink)
    This is what I have......hope it helps
    http://www.buffalotech.com/products/desktop-hard-drives/drivestation/drivestation-duo-1
     
     
    post edited by keneds - 2015/08/22 13:18:19

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    gswitz
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/22 18:38:08 (permalink)
    I would try copying many gigs, like more than twenty and report the MB per second transfer rate at the end. Modern drives can be confusing for sustained transfer rate because of ssd caches. Then based on the amount of data you need to write per minute, calculation of sample rate bit depth and track count, determine if it will do the job.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/23 10:03:07 (permalink)
    I use my external drive solely for backups of project files and sample libraries. Speed doesn't matter for that, just bulk capacity. Although there is no direct benefit to DAW activities, it does provide peace of mind. I only have 1TB, though. If I had a 4TB drive, I'd also be making backups of my entire system on it.


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    #5
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/23 10:28:12 (permalink)
    I could use a little education on the best way to utilize this thing....is there anything I can do to boost the performance of my computer by moving things to the storage device?

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    mettelus
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/23 11:06:04 (permalink)
    In general, a computer that has access to more than one magnetic drive (physically different drives, not a partitioned one) can perform faster, since the heads are locked onto arms and the entire drive (regardless of size or number of platters) can only read/write one file at a time. This is the same reasoning for the common recommendation of system/program drives being different from data drives. System/program drives should be the fastest drive possible, and often need to read quickly, with less writing (why SSDs excel here).
     
    The best advice is what Geoff mentioned. Actually copy/paste a bunch of data to the new drive and see what its actual performance is. You could also copy a few project folders (or even "save as" from SONAR) to it and actually test to see how it performs working on a project that is resident on it.

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    #7
    slartabartfast
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/08/23 12:07:31 (permalink)
    I'm afraid you storage is a bit of a black box in more ways than one. The transfer speed listed, is just the transfer rate of USB 3 (5GB /sec) and might not have anything to do with measures like the sustained read or write speeds of the controller and enclosed drives  that would be germane as to whether you could run it as a real time audio streaming device. The rpm of the drives is not even listed in the specs I found, but even slow drives set up as a two drive RAID 0 array which this supports should be pretty fast. It does sound like you might get away with it, but as others have said the best thing to do is to try to set up one drive as the Sonar project folder for as big a project as you expect to work on, copy the project there and play with the copy to see if you can make it fail. Some of the audio stress test suites using that drive might also be useful tests.
     
    There are some simple drive test utilities that can help you test the speed, but there may be problems using them if the controller in your unit hides the drives themselves. At any rate, what you are looking for is the speed of the unit as a whole (controller, connection, and drive) so anything that will measure actual movement of data to and from the drive will be fine.
    https://ttcshelbyville.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/test-your-hard-drive-speed-with-windows-7s-device-manager/
     
    post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/08/23 12:20:30
    #8
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/10/31 09:21:56 (permalink)
    GUIDANCE REQUESTED

    I need to revive my dormant post....
    Could someone give a detailed somewhat step by step method on how they utilize their external drive for sonar files to free up c drive disk space. I'm lost on what program files I can move to the external drive, how to direct sonar to utilize this drive.....without sending my smooth running experience into a nosedive. What I need is a tutorial of sorts, and I'm sure many people would benefit from this. I'm running out of c drive! HELLLLP

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    #9
    kitekrazy1
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/10/31 12:37:37 (permalink)
    Maybe it's not Sonar files that need to be removed. Take an inventory of our drive. Remove old program you never need. Run Window disk cleanup.

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    slartabartfast
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/10/31 14:20:02 (permalink)
    http://www.howtogeek.com/125923/7-ways-to-free-up-hard-disk-space-on-windows/
     
    There may be a ton of crap on your hard drive installed by Windows and other programs. With a single drive, installation programs are not going to give you a choice of where to put that stuff. I ran WinDirStat on my drive and found an 8 GB file that was put there by the driver for a webcam that I had disconnected. Apparently it was trying to start the unconnected camera every few seconds and dutifully logging the fact that the camera was not connected to this log file for months. There is probably an 8GB hiberfil.sys file that is created (and recreated if you delete it) even if you never hibernate your machine. You can disable hibernation and that file will stay deleted.
     
    A 500 GB drive is not big by current standards, but it should be able to hold Windows and Sonar without cramping. You can move all your Sonar projects except the one you are working on off the internal drive. There are tons of samples and loops etc. that install with Sonar and only samples that actually need to load in real time need to be on your fastest drive. You can uninstall any of the included softsynths, and any associated sample content, that you do not use. Moving these things can get very complicated because your initial installation tells Sonar etc. that they are still on your C: drive, so sometimes it makes more sense to uninstall, then re-install using a custom installation and pointing stuff you do not want on C: to your connected external drive. Have you tested your external drive as advised above to see if you can run projects stored there?
    #11
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 09:55:56 (permalink)
    How about adding another internal drive?

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    #12
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 10:40:11 (permalink)
    I took some time to check my c drive to see what files were eating up the most space.
    My c drive still has 144 GB remaining but I know the end is nearing with the more time I invest in recording....

    Here's a quick rundown of what I have going on....maybe someone can suggest where I can cut out some of the fat.

    Cakewalk projects 36 GB
    x86 program files 21 GB
    Program files 16 GB
    Cakewalk content 13 GB
    Windows 24 GB
    User files 120 GB (the space hog)
    (User files sub folders) ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️
    My documents 10GB
    Downloads 47 GB
    Desktop 56 GB

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    EZdrummer2 / EZmix2

    #13
    scook
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 11:26:36 (permalink)
    The Downloads and Desktop folders look pretty fat. The contents of Downloads are good candidates for review. Do the files need to be stored on C or can they be archived on the external drive? My guess is that they can be archived if they are retained at all. Often times, companies use the Desktop as a convenient temporary space during installation but leave the files for the user to clean up. I suspect there might be some redundant files in your Desktop folder.
     
    You could also move all the projects which are not active to the external drive and copy them back when needed. This is pretty easy with per-project audio folders.
     
    Cakewalk Content could give up a couple of GB pretty quick by deleting/moving the Tutorial folders (unless you use them). If you do not work with audio loops, there are at least 4GB of audio loops usually installed in Cakewalk Content.
     
     
    #14
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 12:42:10 (permalink)
    Thanks Scook....I will fool with this. Do you think adding another internal drive would be a benefit. I'm trying to add some long term usability to my system since "they" don't offer updated drivers for the VS-700 and Windows 10. It's looking like its Windows 7 for me for a while.

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    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 14:36:09 (permalink)
    I'm just always afraid to delete things because it might come back to haunt me when I open older projects. I'm a file hoarder I think.

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    #16
    scook
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 15:31:21 (permalink)
    A second internal drive (either a 7200RPM HD or SSD) does give you options. Ultimately though, it just delays the decisions your are trying to avoid and increases the amount of live data to deal with. The external drive is fine for hording. There is a difference between hording (I too like to keep everything) and having everything online all the time. Of course, even the external drive needs a backup strategy if it is a sole repository data.
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    jbow
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 16:43:36 (permalink)
    slartabartfast
    http://www.howtogeek.com/125923/7-ways-to-free-up-hard-disk-space-on-windows/
     
    There may be a ton of crap on your hard drive installed by Windows and other programs. With a single drive, installation programs are not going to give you a choice of where to put that stuff. I ran WinDirStat on my drive and found an 8 GB file that was put there by the driver for a webcam that I had disconnected. Apparently it was trying to start the unconnected camera every few seconds and dutifully logging the fact that the camera was not connected to this log file for months. There is probably an 8GB hiberfil.sys file that is created (and recreated if you delete it) even if you never hibernate your machine. You can disable hibernation and that file will stay deleted.
     
    A 500 GB drive is not big by current standards, but it should be able to hold Windows and Sonar without cramping. You can move all your Sonar projects except the one you are working on off the internal drive. There are tons of samples and loops etc. that install with Sonar and only samples that actually need to load in real time need to be on your fastest drive. You can uninstall any of the included softsynths, and any associated sample content, that you do not use. Moving these things can get very complicated because your initial installation tells Sonar etc. that they are still on your C: drive, so sometimes it makes more sense to uninstall, then re-install using a custom installation and pointing stuff you do not want on C: to your connected external drive. Have you tested your external drive as advised above to see if you can run projects stored there?


    Can you use this using Acronis to make drive clones? I have been putting off getting a USB 3 drive dock so I can clone my C drive and backup my samples and audio drive. I've used an external drive I the past to backup files from my laptop but now I have a desktop DAW and I know I need to address this. I don't need bells and whistles, just a way to clone the C and backup D and E. I'll get separate green drives to use... but what you have here looks nice.
     
    J

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    #18
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 21:06:17 (permalink)
    Weeding through my "downloads" file I took notice to outdated program updates like patches from X1a, X1b, X1c, X1d......I'm using sonar platinum now, can they be deleted? The same for old ez drummer updates. It's only megabytes of files but there are quite a few of them.
    post edited by keneds - 2015/11/01 21:18:00

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    #19
    scook
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/01 21:41:34 (permalink)
    Once installed, update files from Cakewalk and Toontrack do not need to be retained. Should you ever want to install X1 again all you need are the original install disks and updates X1c and X1d, all of which are available as downloads from Cakewalk. Toontrack updates are cumulative and available for download so if you wnat to keep any of them, all you need is the more recent series.
     
    That said, if it were my machine, I would move all the contents of the download folder to the external drive. Chances are none of the files need to be available on the system drive. If there turn out to be a few files in the download folder that some application requires put them back as needed.
    #20
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/07 11:19:02 (permalink)
    Question...I thought I was moving the contents of my downloads file to my external but I copied the folder. Now that it is copied onto my external, can I go through the the file that's on my "c" drive and delete the contents?

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    EZdrummer2 / EZmix2

    #21
    scook
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/07 11:52:39 (permalink)
    From your description it sounds like the Download folder and its contents are on both the C and external drive. If that is the case, you can safely select and delete all the content in the Download folder on the C drive. If later you find something you need was deleted copy it back from the external.
    #22
    keneds
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    Re: External Hard drive 2015/11/07 12:21:20 (permalink)
    Yes sir...thank you!

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