Helpful ReplyCan Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1?

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dance_lets@yahoo.com
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2009/11/05 17:32:43 (permalink)

Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1?

Many new PCs and Laptops come with built in HDMI ports.  Can Sonar send 5.1 or 7.1 audio out the HDMI ports, or is special Dolby encoding needed?

Andrew Cuomo's B-Slappin Mafia-Bro  audio and background music made with SONAR

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Stone House Studios
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/05 18:50:46 (permalink)
This is an interesting question - and begs for a "why?" (I think)
 
Audio and midi outs are typically used by Sonar for creation/playback (midi) and monitoring (audio.) (A simplification)
So, will you be using your HDMI receiving device (mostly televisions right now) as a monitoring device?
My bet is that the HDMI ports are for video and its related audio - and may not be exposed to Sonar as an audio out.
Of course, I'm just waxing philosophical here!
 
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soundtweaker
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/05 20:04:21 (permalink)
I can see why. Sometimes it's the easiest way to listen to your mixes on another source like an HDMI receiver.
I dont see why it wouldnt work as long as your soundcard can decode and has an hdmi output.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/05 20:31:32 (permalink)
dance_lets@yahoo.com


Many new PCs and Laptops come with built in HDMI ports.  Can Sonar send 5.1 or 7.1 audio out the HDMI ports, or is special Dolby encoding needed?


Yes!

On a per project basis....

From the menu choose Options/Project/Surround from there you can route the formats outputs to correspond with your hardware.

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 09:30:22 (permalink)
soundtweaker


I can see why. Sometimes it's the easiest way to listen to your mixes on another source like an HDMI receiver.
I dont see why it wouldnt work as long as your soundcard can decode and has an hdmi output.


The OP is talking about using an onboard system and not an external soundcard like one would normally use in Sonar. Remember also that HDMI is both video and audio and no none outboard audio interface has an hdmi output. He's going to have to dig into the computer's documentation or check with the manufacturer to see if he can run his Sonar audio into the HDMI out of the computer. I wouldn't be surprised if the only things that can route audio to the HDMI out are the internal dvd drive or TV tuner (if the computer has one).

Jack
Qapla!
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Jose7822
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 09:56:25 (permalink)
Well, I did an experiment since my video card has HDMI output and Sonar does see it.

Does it work?  I don't know.  I don't have an HDMI system in the studio and I ain't bringing the one I have in here :-P

Anyways, just set the driver mode to WDM/KS and Sonar should pick it up.


HTH


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tarsier
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:13:21 (permalink)
I wouldn't be surprised if the only things that can route audio to the HDMI out are the internal dvd drive or TV tuner (if the computer has one).

My onboard soundcard is connected to my videocard via an internal spdif cable going from the mobo spidif out header into the vidcard spdif in header specifically to route audio out HDMI.  I've got my PC hooked up to my TV via HDMI, and all sound can be routed out to it, including Sonar. But since Sonar doesn't include an on-the-fly ac3 encoder, you can't do surround with it, just stereo.
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Jose7822
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:16:12 (permalink)
tarsier


But since Sonar doesn't include an on-the-fly ac3 encoder, you can't do surround with it, just stereo.

Well, that sucks. :-(
 
 

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tarsier
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:26:08 (permalink)
tarsier But since Sonar doesn't include an on-the-fly ac3 encoder, you can't do surround with it, just stereo.
Jose7822: Well, that sucks. :-(


Reading that back, there might be some misunderstanding.

Sonar CAN do surround mixes/playback.   You just have to route each channel of your surround mix to one of your surround speakers.

What Sonar can't do is send that surround mix out a single digital cable (including an HDMI cable) into a surround playback system. That requires the on-the-fly encoder.
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:31:49 (permalink)
Quite true Jack, I hadn't taken that in fully.

It will depend of course whether Sonar recognizes the HDMI routing as specific outputs and they appear in the drop down selectors on the surround page as to whether anything will come directly out of the HDMI port.

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Jose7822
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:33:51 (permalink)
That's what I meant, that sucks :-(

The reason I said this is because Sonar would not be able to send a surround mix out the HDMI output of my video card unless it did decode AC3 on the fly (which would be cool if I wanted to hear what the mix would sound like in a consumer device).  However, I don't have a sorruound setup so it doesn't affect me.  Still, this would be a cool feature to have for those who do this kind of work.

Take care Tarsier!


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Jonbouy
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:36:19 (permalink)
Still, this would be a cool feature to have for those who do this kind of work.


I suspect it won't be long before that means most of us.....

...technology, no good will come of it I tell ya!

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Jose7822
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 10:54:49 (permalink)
Jonbouy



Still, this would be a cool feature to have for those who do this kind of work.


I suspect it won't be long before that means most of us.....

...technology, no good will come of it I tell ya!

 
Perhaps one day we will all have to work in surround....though I don't see it coming any time soon.
 
I think technology is great.  Otherwise we wouldn't have all the comodities we enjoy today. 
 
Just thinking about how people lived 100 years ago is enough for me to appreciate what we have today.
 
Imagine going back further... :-S  Hellz no!!!  I'm fine here thank you :-)
 
The future doesn't look bright either with all the crazy pollution, global warming, an ever growing population and even a meteor with dangerous collision probability coming.
 
Yes, I'm fine here :-)
 
 

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seriousfun
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 11:10:52 (permalink)
Software on-the-fly Dolby Digital/DTS/whatever encoding doesn't exist.

This is not Cakewalk's issue or fault.

Some hardware computer audio cards do have hardware encoding - DD and DTS "Live" features exist, so game and music multichannel sound can be encoded to DD or DTS and streamed to a speaker system with decoder or to a home theater system. Do a web search for "dolby digital live sound card" and you will see many examples - consumer cards, no professional computer audio interfaces.

Dolby, DTS, and others have external professional hardware decoder boxes that cost thousands of $$$$.

SPDIF can carry two channels of uncompressed audio in a few formats, and up to six channels of compressed audio in a few other formats.

HDMI can theoretically expose its outputs to discrete multichannel audio in some ways - Denon and a few other consumer audio manufacturers have made proprietary systems - but there is no industry-wide standard. I don't have HDMI on my computer, so I would be interested to see if anyone successfully sees those discrete outputs from SONAR.

Doug Osborne
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Jose7822
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2009/11/06 11:36:36 (permalink)
Seriousfun,

I didn't mean to imply that it was Cakewalk's fault or anything.  Just thought it'd be nice to have such feature.

That said, I tested my video card's HDMI output again and it only exposes the Left, Right, and Stereo pair only.

So no joy for surround, at least not with my video card's HDMI outputs.


Take care!


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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2015/02/20 13:43:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kevo 2015/02/20 14:10:54
Using Sonar X-1 and Realtek HD Sound Card on windows 8.1
Where can I find ?
1- From the menu (wich one? ) choose Options/Project/Surround from there you can route the formats outputs to correspond with your hardware.
Where can I find ?
2- the driver mode to WDM/KS and Sonar should pick it up.
Merci
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5MilesHigh
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2015/08/29 02:04:27 (permalink)
Hey, is there actually answer anywhere to be found here. Perhaps, others may be able to add to my current experience.
 
I've got S-Pro/x64. I had been running my PC and mixer audio to a UA-4FX to a generic old Hitachi amp. Being proactive I got an Onkyo SR636 which has RCA component inputs but breathes HDMI. So, I just did my Aug C3 update, and want to check out how Sonar plays with HDMI. Apparently, it doesn't, though maybe I need to study the routing options in Pref/Proj/Surround yet again. 
 
Anyway, I don't see the HDMI ports. I've got two Nvidia graphic cards feeding the Onkyo to the Game and PC inputs. The UA-4FX feeds into a separate RCA component input to my 'CD/Tape' input and the 3rd monitor HDMI passes thru so the graphics are OK while sourcing from the UA without video. 
 
Anyway, I can't see the HDMI inputs in Sonar from my NV-750-ti or NV-650. They just auto-magically appear in FLS. And I can switch between them from 'Sounds', though the labeling needs work. I'd expected to find this in the 'Playback and Recording' by changing Driver Mode, but none seem to show the HMDI outputs. Please tell me I'm wrong again, and point me  in the right direction.
 
Is there a way route Sonar's output to my HDMI output's? The HW (decoder on the NV card which is supposedly pretty good supports 5.1 and beyond. I've got full range spkrs, so I run 5.0 mostly. The Onkyo does 7.2 but I don't need two powered sub-woofers and prefer neighbors.
 
Any suggestions on where to look to sort out attaching HDMI equipment to S-Pro?
 
 
#17
mudgel
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2015/08/29 03:19:32 (permalink)
If you select WDM/KS drivers in Sonar you might see the HDMI connection. But still only be able to send stereo audio down it.

As far as I'm aware HDMI is a consumer connection system and for your purpose it's likely you'll need a 3rd party device to take your 6 or 8 or more surround tracks, merge them into a digital stream and then output them via HDMI.

Basically nothing much has changed in the 5 or 6 years since this thread was started.
post edited by mudgel - 2015/08/29 03:38:26

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5MilesHigh
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2015/08/29 11:43:08 (permalink)
That's why I got so concerned when I found my UA-4FX audio interface didn't work with W10. It does now after fI bugged Roland to update their drivers, and I'm looking into the HDMI stuff, finally. I'm also trying really hard to ignore W10, but that's another thread.
 
The NV cards do the whole mixdown thing from the the M$oft sound selection inputs into a digital stream sent via HDMI to the AV receiver that likes digital way more than a RCA component audio plug (as do I) which basically means 'stereo-only' input to the amp/receiver from the UA. I'm hoping to send the audio from Sonar via BlueTooth to the Onkyo and not even mess with the cables anymore, someday anyway.
 
Without Sonar support for HDMI, I'm left back with my UA-4fx doing analog RCA into the amp. I definitely am not going SPDIF either. 
 
This is a Sonar specific issue. I say this because my FLStudio definitely (and I'm pretty sure Band in a Box did too, but I need to check again) just listed them as output devices. Of course, they aren't ASIO, but that was always a kludge anyway. My hope had been that Sonar (which does everything) would let me start playing with mixing in more than just stereo. Apparently not, and as you point out:
"Basically nothing much has changed in the 5 or 6 years since this thread was started."
 
That kind of takes the digital out of the Sonar DAW, for me anyway. AW!
 
 
 
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Re:Can Sonar use HDMI to send 5.1 or 7.1? 2015/08/29 13:35:26 (permalink)
Solved. I had to poke around and apparently the correct way to cast this spell and get things working involves triggering a new audio driver scan. 
What worked is:
1) Pref/Audio/PB&Rec: Select WASAPI driver mode (another thing to look-up now)
2) Deselect the current output driver (this is probably what I was missing)
3) Select a new driver to search for audio stuff
 
The HDMI outputs now show up, much as I'd hoped for. It's a bit odd that they don't auto-detect and just show up. They probably will now though. The driver for the Onkyo provides for setting sample rates, bit depths, etc. But they still need to get setup to match whatever Sonar has been set to use. So, separate Outputs for 1/2,3/4,5/6 and 7/8 for both NV cards. Nice. Which card is ambiguous currently, but I'll setup some friendly names.
 
Now back to where-ever I saw those 'Surround' settings, 
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