Helpful ReplyAdvice needed on disconnecting Internet completely

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jkoseattle
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2015/08/28 21:31:44 (permalink)

Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely

I have had more than my share of Sonar issues over the past few years it seems, lots of crashes and unexpected problems and frustrations. In researching this idly last week I ran across someone who said the most foolproof thing would be to disconnect my DAW computer from the Internet entirely. This will enable me to also uninstall virus protection and any other software whose resource-heavy job is to protect you from the Internet's evils. Anything like downloading drivers or researching music on Spotify would be done on a completely different machine sitting nearby, and Flash drives would be used for installing Sonar updates, drivers, etc.
 
I have a laptop around I never use, and so I'm thinking about doing this. Has anyone here done that? Are there other things I'm not thinking of that I could delete or settings to change to take advantage of this change? I'm worried I'll do this and notice no improvement in stability or performance, and that will be because there are additional steps I need to take. Or maybe this is a bad idea? Advice?

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#1
John
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/28 22:55:47 (permalink)
I don't know about that. Mine is on the net all the time and it doesn't crash. I would look closely at hardware. Vista Win 7 and Win 8.1 were very stable OSs. 10 is turning out to be just as stable. Memory is a very likely area that should be checked. Than the motherboard and what chip sets it has. Another is the graphic card. All of these things have to work flawlessly for a system to be stable.  Sonar Platinum is very stable. Look up the crash reports on your event log and pinpoint what is causing these crashes. Of course the audio card or interface is vital too.
 
The internet is not in and of itself a reason for crashing.  

Best
John
#2
noynekker
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/28 23:21:28 (permalink)
jkoseattle . . . I would echo what John has said, and the only time I feel like I need to disconnect the internet (Wi-Fi) on my system is when I'm doing an export to audio, or when I'm running a project at sample rate higher than 44.1k
 
Looking at your specs, it seems I have a similar audio card and midi hook-up to yours, and I can say that I rarely have any crashing, though you do have less RAM / CPU, and I wonder how much system resource "EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra" uses up on your system ?
 
I use MS Security Essentials for virus protection, which has a very low system footprint.
 
Also, since upgrading to Sonar Platinum, there is a marked increase in my system efficiency.
post edited by noynekker - 2015/08/28 23:30:36

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#3
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/28 23:58:01 (permalink)
jkoseattle
n researching this idly last week I ran across someone who said the most foolproof thing would be to disconnect my DAW computer from the Internet entirely. T

 
This was good advice, in 1999.
 
Nowadays it's actually worse if you disconnect off the internet. If you don't keep your software/firmware/drivers up to date they get out of sync with each other. Plus windows update does improve performance and reliability.
 
What you really need is a decent backup strategy. I recommend using an external hard drive and using software such as Acronis Trueimage.
 
Antivirus such as AVG works fine, you just need to set up exclusions in the area where Sonar needs to access.
 
When you are recording you can disable your network adapters if you like by right clicking on the adapter icon, this may save resources. Also periodically defrag.
 
There are also things you can do to fine tune your system like turn off windows services you won't need (use caution), disable startup programs and use latencymon/process monitor/process explorer to spot any problems.
 
Be careful with your automated tasks, for instance you don't want windows searching indexing or a defrag happening whilst you are working.
 
If you machine is littered with old apps consider a clean install of windows (7 or 10), note you can get windows 10 for free but you need to be sure your drivers will work. You may see some noticeable performance benefits on a dual-core as there is a smaller footprint. On more powerful machines it's difficult to spot.
 
Ta
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/29 00:07:37

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#4
michael diemer
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 01:24:01 (permalink)
I keep my music rig offline. Yesterday I installed Musescore on it, by using my other computer and an external drive. I think it's smart to do this, although obviously you're going to get differing views on this. It gives me a feeling of confidence. And privacy. Further, when online on my other computer, I use Linux Zorin 90% of the time. (Had to use Windows to download Musecore, but that's because my music machine has Windows 7). Linux, needless to say, is far safer than Windows. I think risk-reduction is a very good idea these days. Why wouldn't you?

michael diemer
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#5
rebel007
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 03:36:10 (permalink)
I often disconnect from the net when using Sonar. It’s just a matter of pulling the plug and replacing when finished. It gives me peace of mind that there is no chance that I will get an interruption of that one perfect “take” that I would be disappointed with if it had a glitch in the middle that was caused by an errant system process.
I have also found that Windows 10, in particular, is very busy in the first 5 minutes or so of booting up and I wouldn’t even consider using Sonar in that time as there is a very good chance of an interruption. There seems to be a lot of calling home, and updating of live tiles (and ads) on the start menu.
I also have a 32bit system which requires me to be a bit more careful about my RAM usage. This is probably not such an issue for you, but there is still the chance that a process is going to start, or interrupt, your workflow when you least expect it, causing a crackle in “that take”, or at worse a crash that loses you some vital work.
I also stop my antivirus during recording, and although this won’t get you a virus or malware unless you’re visiting nefarious websites, it does stop it from checking every file you open that is not on your exceptions list.
In the end, if you’re worried, do some tests and check your resource monitor and logs. It will tell you if being connected to the net is causing your computer any grief.
Let us know if you find anything that is causing you issues, I for one would be interested to know. I guess I’m a bit of a conspiracy theorist at heart.

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#6
c5_convertible
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 07:49:41 (permalink)
michael diemer
...Linux, needless to say, is far safer than Windows. ..



That may have been correct back when xp ruled the world.. Now there is a different story:
 
http://www.gfi.com/blog/most-vulnerable-operating-systems-and-applications-in-2014/
This is a list of os vulnerabilities in 2014... OS X leads the pack, then iOS, then Linux, and with a large margin afterwards, Windows. Several versions of windows are listed, but the same vulnerabilities affect different versions of windows, still, the total number of vulnerabilities was 68 for windows, while the Linux kernal had 119. That's not including the different "flavors" of Linux.
 
The main message when it comes to keeping your computer clean is to be very mindful of what you do on the net. Don't just click any link, but use common sense.  My DAW is connected to the net (via a hardware firewall) and has no virus scanner running. Haven't had issues on that machine up to now (I do an online scan from time to time to make sure). On the computers I use to surf the net, I do have a virus scanner, and even then I'm using my head when working on it. I don't install software I don't know (or trust), Mails are scrutinezed always. I read every message that appears on my computer before I click anything.
 
Been working with computers now for the past 35 years. Only had 2 viruses, and both were my own fault.
 
I can understand you like to use Linux, but please don't fuel the gossip. Windows is currently one of the most secure os you can install. One big "if" though... Don't switch off the built-in security, like UAC. On Linux, you don't switch it off either, so why would you on windows?
post edited by c5_convertible - 2015/08/29 07:58:16

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#7
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 10:12:03 (permalink)
rebel007
I often disconnect from the net when using Sonar. It’s just a matter of pulling the plug and replacing when finished. 



If you right click and disable the network adapter whilst using Sonar you disable the network stack (you don't need to pull the plug), and you will see more of a performance benefit. If I were to do this (I don't) I would probably write a batch file or something so it's quick and easy to do, or just drag the adapter icons onto my desktop, thus creating a shortcut.

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synkrotron
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 10:24:46 (permalink)
On a similar subject, if a laptop has a "Flight Mode" switch, would there be any benefit in turning that on, thus disconnecting from t'internet?

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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 10:34:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2015/08/29 11:57:33
synkrotron
On a similar subject, if a laptop has a "Flight Mode" switch, would there be any benefit in turning that on, thus disconnecting from t'internet?



All "Flight mode" is basically disabling Wifi and 3G/4G (anything wireless) so yes.. You would have to check to see if it disables the adapters in Windows or not (it probably will). Personally I would continue as normal connected with the internet though, but if I started experiencing dropouts I would then resort to disabling the adapter. I would optimize with latencymon, update the drivers and BIOS first however.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/29 10:43:51

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#10
joakes
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 10:34:27 (permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
rebel007
I often disconnect from the net when using Sonar. It’s just a matter of pulling the plug and replacing when finished. 



If you right click and disable the network adapter whilst using Sonar you disable the network stack (you don't need to pull the plug), and you will see more of a performance benefit. If I were to do this (I don't) I would probably write a batch file or something so it's quick and easy to do, or just drag the adapter icons onto my desktop, thus creating a shortcut


If i remember correctly Bitflipper wrote a batch file to disable/enable the Networking (in the Techniques forum ? I'm not at my desktop - its in France, i am in China - but its quite recent).

I used it for W7 where i had great problems - latency with ndis file - but with W10 i don't need to.

cheers,
Jerry

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#11
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/29 10:52:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mitch_I 2015/08/29 13:10:46
Disconnecting the PC from the Internet (in and of itself) won't solve anything.
 
Where you get into issues:
  • Deeply entrenched A/V software (can cause performance related issues as well as trouble with authorization, etc)
  • Sending/Receiving Email (your greatest risk of infection/malware)
  • Automatic Updates (an update could potentially adversely affect performance)
  • WiFi is notorious for causing higher DPC Latency (some adapters behave much better than others)
 
Here's what I'd recommend:
  • Reload the machine so it's as clean/lean as possible.
  • Tweak the BIOS/OS so that DPC Latency is as low as possible
  • Disable power-management type features
  • Disable scheduling services and other intensive operations that shouldn't be constantly running in the background.
  • Disable Automatic Updates (manually check/install - make sure you have a backup prior)
  • Don't send/receive Email on the DAW
  • Make sure you have an up-to-date backup image file (using True Image or similar)
In short, you want a clean/lean machine... that's built/tweaked to sustain heavy loads (without hiccups in data flow).  Do these things... and you'll have a trouble-free DAW.
Although rare, in some cases you may need to swap out hardware to achieve maximum performance.
 
FWIW, I've got my DAW connected 24/7 (no A/V software)... and it's never been infected.
A little common sense really goes a long way...
With the backup image file... even if the worst happens... you can reload and be up-and-running in short order.
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#12
rebel007
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/30 08:53:09 (permalink)
Thanks about the info regarding disabling the network stack Doktor, that sounds like a much easier method than just pulling the plug.
Automatic updates could be a problem Jim? My conspiracy theorist left brain has always wondered what would happen if someone were to be able to hijack the windows update system and insert something nefarious (my latest favourite word). Doesn't bear thinking about really.

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#13
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/30 09:14:50 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
FWIW, I've got my DAW connected 24/7 (no A/V software)... and it's never been infected.
A little common sense really goes a long way...
With the backup image file... even if the worst happens... you can reload and be up-and-running in short order.


Forgive me for asking, But how do you know if you are infected or not without antivirus and/or anti malware software?

I run antivirus perfectly well and Malwarebytes. It's essential. If you exclude Sonar paths it works fine. If you have problems during recording you can temporarily disable it anyway.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#14
Cactus Music
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/30 12:39:49 (permalink)
The OP has not returned, but looking at the computer specs I'd say by today's standards no wonder they are having some issues. A more up to date system would be better at dealing with on line stuff. And the M audio Delta? isn't that sort of old too? 
Myself I have a wireless USB dongle and I just disconnect it if I'm in that sort of mood. For me it's more a case of saving bandwith with my 3 GB limit. I need control over what my computers are doing on line so I turn it off unless I'm using it. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/08/30 12:48:20

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#15
jkoseattle
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/30 16:50:42 (permalink)
OP has returned. Thanks everyone, very interesting reading. Doesn't seem like I need to disconnect from the Internet after all, and it sounds like it may be time to just get more computing powah. My projects tend to be big (the current has about 50 instruments, over 60 tracks, many of which are multi-tracked vocals in take lanes, so really over 80) Thanks for those of you who advocated for that as well, since I can now use it as ammunition in getting the funding approved for it! :-)
 
I think what I'm going to do is get a new system, put all my DAW stuff on it including a Platinum upgrade, leave it connected to the Internet for drivers and updates and such, and don't install anything else. Thanks again all!

Sonar Version: Platinum  
Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta
Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit
Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition
Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms  
Check out my work here
#16
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/08/30 18:16:59 (permalink)
Consider dual boot.
Cheers..

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#17
williamcopper
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/09/01 04:31:57 (permalink)
My solution is to usually, not always, get off the internet: I have a shortcut to the network adapter so it can be quickly clicked and set to 'disable'.   Then if internet is needed for something, I can enable again, get whatever it is done, and disable.    Those who say "it's not the internet's fault" ... well .. not directly, but how about the adware, the programs that automatically want to log you in to the home site, etc etc ... I'd rather shut them all off.    There's still something on my system that periodically upsets sonar, and I'm sure it is a program trying to get to its internet home in order to report on me, or check for updates, or something ...
#18
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advice needed on disconnecting Internet completely 2015/09/01 11:12:46 (permalink)
williamcopper
There's still something on my system that periodically upsets sonar, and I'm sure it is a program trying to get to its internet home in order to report on me, or check for updates, or something ...


If you were sure what it actually is you would have resolved the issue by now, I wouldn't assume anything myself.. Maybe we can help ..I'd start a new thread for that.

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