Helpful Replyi7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core

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RedSkyRoad
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2015/08/25 15:02:20 (permalink)

i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core

Hi,
 
For SONAR, do I go for more cores or faster clock?
 
Which of the above CPUs do I choose?
 
Regards,
#1
kevinwal
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/25 15:24:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2015/08/26 05:53:38
There are some pretty good tech papers on the net that analyze this very question, not necessarily relating to Sonar but to CPU-intensive operations. As I read it, in general with the current state of the art in multi-core, you can achieve greater through-put with fewer cores running at higher clock speeds. As always, YMMV.
 
That being said, since I'm an unabashed geek, more cores is always better, even if it's not. :)
#2
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/25 15:45:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2015/08/26 05:53:44
Ideally, you want fast clock-speed *and* more cores.
You really don't want to sacrifice one for the other.
(If it's a large difference in clock-speed, I'd go with fewer cores running significantly faster.)
 
The 6700k is barely hitting the street.
I'd sit out the first gen motherboards... and let the issues settle.
 
You'd be very pleased with a six-core 5820k running at 4-4.5GHz.  
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#3
Sycraft
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/25 16:05:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2015/08/26 05:53:48
Depending on what you are doing it may not matter much. I have a 5930K running at 4GHz and nothing I do comes even close to making any real use of it. I think maybe 30-40% load is the max I've managed. My old 2600K wasn't having any issues either, I just wanted a new toy.
 
If you load things real heavy it can matter, but if not it isn't a big deal usually. Audio has really been getting "easy" these days, computers tend to have more power than is needed for most things.
 
If you are wanting to go for the 6 core option I'd think about overclocking it personally. They OC real easy and then you can have some good speed AND higher core count. Even a really bad sample will hit 4GHz no issue, and most will do 4.2-4.4GHz with a normal air cooler.
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microapp
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/25 19:16:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2015/08/26 05:53:53
Funny, I got back from buying an I7-5820K at Microcenter like 10 mins ago. I did a lot of research on 5820 vs 4790 vs 6700. If you want a future upgrade path (no guarantees) go 6700 (1151 skt).
If you want a cheap but powerful system go with 4790 (1150 skt obsolete)
Since my new studio PC build will do nothing else but audio and the 5820 (2011 skt) may have one more  generation of upgrades with broadwell or the 8-core I7-5960X ($850+), I went that route. I intend to overclock the 5820 up to 4.5Mhz (@6 cores) if I can get that high.
For the 6700 or the 5820, you pay more for DDR4 RAM and maybe a bit more for the motherboard than with the 4790.
My 4790 build estimate was about $1100. (32GB DDR3 RAM, 2 SSDs/1TB HDD w/o video card, $60 cooler and $70 case).
My 5820 real build (32GB DDR3 RAM, 2 SSDs/1TB HDD w/o video card) is about $1550 of which $110 is the OC cooler and another $140 for the case. The DDR4 32GB was $259.
So $200-300 more for the 5820 vs 4790 depending on case and OC vs no OC. You could certainly put together a very respectable 4790 system for < $1000 even with video card.
I did not do a 6700 estimate since I cannot find one I can get my hands on.
 
If you are worried about a new motherboard supporting a future processor, no one really knows.
I would expect the Skylake 1151 socket to last a least a generation or two, but Intel has not told us what their plans are for future sockets past Skylake.
For Sonar or other multithreaded DAWs, I think more cores is slightly more important than raw clk speed but both is better still. Unless you are using multiple monster samplers or heavy duty multiple synths with tons of VST effects, the 4 core CPUs (4790, 6700) will be more than enough.
BTW, Microcenter has 5820 for $299, 4790 for $279 (I think).This is $90 off 5820, $60 off 4790. In store only. I could not find anyone with the 6700 yet but I read it will be ~$400.
The remaining parts for my build will arrive Thu, I will post how it goes.
post edited by microapp - 2015/08/25 20:32:45

Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2
Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012
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#5
kevinwal
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/25 21:39:34 (permalink)
Great posts with useful data, kudos to all!
#6
RedSkyRoad
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/26 05:47:13 (permalink)
Hey guys,
 
Thanks for the helpful information.  I think I'm going to go for the 5820 and get a proper cooler for when I push the CPU to 95% :)
 
Regards,
B
#7
Sycraft
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/26 05:51:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2015/08/26 07:15:46
Not a bad plan. Personally the Arctic Cooling Freezer i30 is what I got for mine. Positively massive, but fits without blocking any components. Plenty of overhead for overclocking.
#8
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/26 09:51:07 (permalink)
If over-clocking the 5820k to 4.5GHz, you want high-performance cooling.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#9
Mesh
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/26 11:03:51 (permalink)
Also check out Noctua's NH-D14 cooler......as you can see it's a real beast, and will probably need a full ATX case, but it's a fantastic cooler (OC'ing or not).
 

 
 

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#10
Simons
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/30 07:39:20 (permalink)
I would strongly suggest the i7 5820k, as it is a really good CPU and honestly the Skylake 6700k seems in my opinion obselete. Also you dont need the highest performaning CPU cooler, as long as you go water or something along those lines.
 
My CPU is sitting at 4.5Ghz and I could go 4.6Ghz, but I did not wanna add to much voltage to keep it, and im sitting at high 60's and low 70's when doing stress tests, with a Cooler Master Seidon 120M, which is a cheap cooler.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/31 09:19:55 (permalink)
FWIW, Using a larger cooler means more surface area to keep things cool.
The cooler the CPU, the lower the fan RPMs (read noise)
 
The small difference in cost is worth ensuring the machine runs as quiet as possible.
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2015/08/31 09:28:31

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#12
microapp
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/08/31 15:01:10 (permalink)
Redsky,
All excellent advice here.
Well, I for the most part finished my 5820 build. It went fairly smoothly. I have not started the OC yet but running stock I am getting maybe 5 deg C over ambient with a Corsair H110 cooler. I had a Syba firewire card I intended to use but when I went to install it, it turned out to be PCI and I needed PCIe for the Asus X99-A. PCIe firewire arrives today.
I got the Corsair Carbide 540 case. It is double wide and the power supply and drive space is in another compartment from the motherboard. This allowed the cleanest build I ever made.
One caveat. I installed win 8.1 on the first SSD while the HDD was connected. For some reason it put the system boot partition on the HDD. I reinstalled with ONLY the first SSD connected. No biggie, win 8.1 installs in like 15mins !.
Anyway, the 5820 is a monster, I am not disappointed in any way.
Michael
 
 
post edited by microapp - 2015/08/31 15:10:59

Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2
Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012
I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 Pro
Toshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 Pro
Tascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61
Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50
Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570
Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul Custom
Digitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
#13
LumenMedia
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/14 08:02:06 (permalink)
Did you overclocked it yet?
microapp
Redsky,
All excellent advice here.
Well, I for the most part finished my 5820 build. It went fairly smoothly. I have not started the OC yet but running stock I am getting maybe 5 deg C over ambient with a Corsair H110 cooler. I had a Syba firewire card I intended to use but when I went to install it, it turned out to be PCI and I needed PCIe for the Asus X99-A. PCIe firewire arrives today.
I got the Corsair Carbide 540 case. It is double wide and the power supply and drive space is in another compartment from the motherboard. This allowed the cleanest build I ever made.
One caveat. I installed win 8.1 on the first SSD while the HDD was connected. For some reason it put the system boot partition on the HDD. I reinstalled with ONLY the first SSD connected. No biggie, win 8.1 installs in like 15mins !.
Anyway, the 5820 is a monster, I am not disappointed in any way.
Michael
 
 





www.RoyaltyFreeCloud.com My system: Core i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4, Gigabyte Gaming 5 motherboard, RME Babyface Pro, NVidia GTX750, Plextor m6s and more than 6 Tb of various HDD
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microapp
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/14 08:49:00 (permalink)
LumenMedia,
Yes, at least preliminary.
I used the ASUS optimization software. In about 10 mins I had a stable 4.4Ghz at 1.25V with 2800Mhz for the DDR4 32GB.
I manually tweaked the voltage to 1.30V and got 4.5Ghz but it had trouble booting (about 50% of time it booted). I did not have a lot of time so I backed off to 4.4Ghz/1.25V with which I am satisfied until I get time to manually tweak it some more. I get core temps of around 68c after about an hour's stress test. It is completely stable with no crashes or boot issues...Looks like I got an average CPU chip ...maybe a little on the low side but I wanted at least 4.3Ghz and I got that.
Overall it was completely painless. No problems connecting to my FW-1884 via the Siig PCIe firewire card I finally got. Even with the stock Corsair fans and the H110 cooler, it is very quiet. The fans ramp up on POST but then settle down and remain very quite even during stress testing.
A Sonar project which brought my Core 2 Duo E8400 3Ghz / 6 GB DDR3 to its knees (90% CPU) does not even register on the performance monitor now. Temps are  < 30c while running this project.
I also just bought Cubase 8 after I found a deal for $400. Again it is completely stable.
If you are not an old hand at OC (I am not), then you can't beat Asus for making it easy for you.
post edited by microapp - 2015/09/14 09:54:43

Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2
Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012
I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 Pro
Toshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 Pro
Tascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61
Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50
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Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul Custom
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#15
Mesh
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/14 09:50:35 (permalink)
Very nice rig you got there Michael and yeah, it's really great to have software that makes it super easy to OC the machine.
Of note, I also have a Jackson (Stealth Ex, now 20 yrs. old (another big Randy Rhoads fans)).  

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#16
microapp
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/14 11:43:36 (permalink)
Mesh,
Yes, I am very pleased with the build, thanks. I should have done it a long time ago but was waiting for Broadwell, then Skylake and both those turned out to be a yawn.
 
Sweet guitar you have there. I was a little worried about the neck on mine since I have heard thay can warp on later models but it is rock solid after 7 years. My friend's late 2000's Charvel is practically unplayable though.
Michael

Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2
Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012
I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 Pro
Toshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 Pro
Tascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61
Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50
Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570
Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul Custom
Digitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
#17
RedSkyRoad
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/14 13:25:43 (permalink)
So here's my build - very pleased with the performance :)
 
Intel Core i7-5820K Hex/6 core
16GM Ram : Kingston Hyper-X FURY Memory Black - DDR4 2133MHz (HX421C14FBK2/8 DDR4-2133) 
ASUS Strix GTX 960
Asus X99-A/USB3.1
Kingston 480Gb Hyper-X Predator PCIe SSD (SHPM2280P2H/480G NGFF M.2)
Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX
Corsair Gamer Series CXM600 600W Power Supply.
 
And everything is connected to my Samsung UHD TV - One question : Will SONAR Platinum scale nicely on 4K? I have not upgraded to Platinum yet...
#18
Mesh
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/14 13:40:44 (permalink)
Very nice indeed Berend!! Looks to be a good gaming machine as well .
 
Reg. 4K, this might interest you: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Bug-when-sliding-volume-and-pan-on-a-4K-monitor-m3177940.aspx 

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#19
RedSkyRoad
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/15 11:12:38 (permalink)
Thanks for the info regarding the 4K.

Intel Core i7-5820K Hex/6 core
16GM Ram : Kingston Hyper-X FURY Memory Black - DDR4 2133MHz (HX421C14FBK2/8 DDR4-2133) 
ASUS Strix GTX 960
Asus X99-A/USB3.1
Kingston 480Gb Hyper-X Predator PCIe SSD (SHPM2280P2H/480G NGFF M.2)
Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX
Corsair Gamer Series CXM600 600W Power Supply.
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AllanH
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/09/22 23:03:33 (permalink)
A very key component is the speed of memory along with the type of memory and the memory controller. Get DDR4 and as fast as you can. That's incredibly important in realtime applications, especially under load.
 
 
 

Sonar Platinum, EWHO/D, Spitfire, Miroslav, Pianoteq, ....,  Kurzweil.
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Craigster91
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/10/18 02:48:49 (permalink)
What are recommended x99 motherboards for DAW for the 5820?
Are USB 3.1, Thunderbolt, and/or m.2 connections necessary? If so, in what scenarios?
 
Thanks so much!
#22
Sycraft
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/10/18 11:49:46 (permalink)
I like the ASUS X99 Delxue, that's the one I got. It works well and has nice low latency.
 
USB 3.1 is a non-issue at this point. Nothing uses it, and as a practical matter USB 3 is only used for audio interfaces with a ton of channels like RME's MADI stuff. USB 2 is all that's needed for normal audio interfaces.
 
Thunderbolt is not needed unless you want to use a thunderbolt interface. The problem with that is that many of them only have Mac drivers so even if you had a TB port, you couldn't use it on your system.
 
M.2 can be useful if you want to get a really fast M.2 SSD. That is more of a "because I can" thing than really useful though. I have one, a Samsung XP941, and it really offers no noticeable real world benefit over the 840 Pro it replaced despite having much higher benchmarks. Also M.2 is just a small PCIe 4x connector, so you can always add it via a cheap addon card.
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Craigster91
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/10/19 02:28:25 (permalink)
Sycraft,
 
Thanks so much for the info. VERY helpful and clear.
I decided to go a different direction... Following Jim R.'s and other's guidance, realizing a 4790 with mature z97 mobo will be fine for audio needs, and a doubling of my current speed. I decided to pursue an upgrade rather than a new build. I'll be able to use most of my existing gear. 
 
Thanks again.
Craig
 
#24
skitch_84
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Re: i7 5820K (2011v3) 6 core vs. i7 6700K (1151) 4 core 2015/10/20 02:54:00 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Ideally, you want fast clock-speed *and* more cores.
You really don't want to sacrifice one for the other.
(If it's a large difference in clock-speed, I'd go with fewer cores running significantly faster.)
 
The 6700k is barely hitting the street.
I'd sit out the first gen motherboards... and let the issues settle.
 
You'd be very pleased with a six-core 5820k running at 4-4.5GHz.  
 



I've been researching this very thing myself lately, and since I've never build my own PC, I'm a little overwhelmed with all of the options. I'm considering getting a custom build from you, Jim. I had a question though.

Does StudioCat ship to Japan? I tried to contact you via your support page on your site, but I never got a reply. I figured I'd seen you pretty active on these forums, so I thought I'd reach out here. 

Sorry for (kind of) hijacking the thread, RedSkyRoad!

Chris Porter
www.cportermusic.com
Listen to my original work on Soundcloud and YouTube
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Sonar Platinum "2017.04", Windows 10 64-bit, ASUS Z170-A, i7 6700K (4.0GHz), 32GB DDR4 RAM, 250GB SSD 850 EVO (OS/Sonar/Plugins), 1TB SSD 850 EVO (Sample Libraries), 3TB WD Black HDD (projects/audio), Noctua NH-D14 Cooling Unit, PreSonus AudioBox USB Interface, M-AUDIO Oxygen49
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