Helpful ReplyI will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s...

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jerrypettit
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2015/09/20 18:36:50 (permalink)

I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s...

...in upcoming weeks.  It's my old band and we've just located these old reel-to-reels we made back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
 
I haven't heard them yet, but wondered what challenges I'm going to have.  I suspect I'll be able to hook up an old RtoR machine up to my audio interface and simply import, in real time, to SONAR, do some fiddling (not high quality mixed in the first place), and export eventually as MP3.
 
Any of you done this before and have any advice?  Thanks in advance!
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Jeff Evans
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/20 18:50:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby morganfm71 2015/09/21 01:20:39
You may  (I can almost guarantee it)  have problems with the magnetic oxide particles coming off while you are in play mode and the tape passes through the transport.  The glue that holds the magnetic particles to the base backing breaks down over time.  You may only get a few minutes in before you will have to stop and clean the tape path.  Then again I have seen some tapes that hold up super well and don't shed at all.  You won’t know until you try it.  I usually wind the tape to the end and rewind back as well before doing a transfer.  The tape may be stuck together a bit.
 
Now if you are having oxide issues you can get the tapes baked in a special oven.  Do not use a normal oven it is way too hot.  The tape baking oven needs to be around 130F or 55C.  I have built a special oven for the purpose.  I do transfers professionally for people.  There may be a facility in your city that offers the service.  The tape needs to be wound onto a metal spool and then the sides of the spool removed so it is only a pancake you are baking.  (Don't drop the pancake either!)
 
You will get 3 to 4 passes with no oxide coming off after baking then it goes back to where it was before so you have to capture quickly.  Baking takes around 8 hours usually.
 
The tape machine should preferably be the same track format and speed as the recording and obviously the better the machine the better the result you will get.
 
You need to set levels and make sure the loudest passages don't clip your system.
 
If you are having issues you can always send the reels to me.  I have 6 tape machines here that cover every format and speed pretty well and also the baking oven of course.
 
Good luck.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2015/09/20 19:20:21

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bitman
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/20 21:19:01 (permalink)
I did it.
It's a lot of fun.
Save the raw tracks somewhere safe before you tweak.
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mixmkr
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/20 21:26:48 (permalink)
Jeff is spot on.  I have some old tapes from that era that are just almost useless, but I keep them anyway for some reason.  Some tapes are fine but the Quantagy tape was the worst for lifespan.  I'm talking 1/4" half track format at 15 ips.

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Jeff Evans
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/20 22:32:58 (permalink)
bitman made a good point too.  On the way into your DAW no processing or anything. Just capture as they are. All processing should be done post capture.
 
mixmkr if you want to send me the reel I would be happy to have a go at it for you. The baking does not hurt the tape either.  The worst that can happen is that it will still shed after baking.  What you think is useless now can turn into a totally playable tape for one or two passes after baking on the other hand.

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mettelus
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/20 23:10:12 (permalink)
I am glad Jeff chimed in off the bat. Shedding is destructive so without baking you may get only one pass on the tape. Depending on storage conditions you may not even get that. Please consider his advice on baking these first.

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morganfm71
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/21 01:10:51 (permalink)
I just did this with about 10 1/4" reels of my grandfather playing guitar/singing. The newest tape was pre 1977. I didn't bake these tapes. They were in terrible condition. Very brittle. I assumed I would only get one play out of them. Now that I've done it, I probably could have gotten more than one play. 
 
I wound each tape to an empty reel and then rewound them back before I played them.
 
Other than the occasional tape snapping, it was fairly uneventful. 
 
I did have to clean the machine after every tape. 
 
 
 
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THambrecht
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/21 03:52:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby morganfm71 2015/09/21 14:15:36
We digitize thousands of tapes for over ten years for numerous clients. We earn our daily bread.
We think Sonar is the best Software to this Job.
The tapes lost some heights. So take an Equalizer.
ZNoise (Waves) and RX4 (iZotope) is the best way to restaure the tapes from noise.
Even tapes from 1960 will sound well.

We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
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jerrypettit
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/21 08:25:04 (permalink)
Thanks a lot, guys.  I will definitely do the baking.
 
I would go with you, Jeff, but you're in Australia.  I'm in the States.  THambrecht is in Germany.
 
Mettelus, I spend half of my time in Northern Virginia.  Are you in the business, or can you tell me where to get this done?
post edited by jerrypettit - 2015/09/21 08:36:56
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mettelus
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/21 08:56:50 (permalink)
Unfortunately, no, but I have seen this topic come up off and on. The last one had several folks pop in to recommend folks (that one was for a person who had 2" tape with no machine to play it on, IIRC). If you preface a Google search with "site:forum.cakewalk.com" it will target keywords for this forum only, which may help. Another option would be to rename this thread or start a new one.
 
As Jeff mentioned, you may also want to simply search for businesses local to you which do this. Do you have the RtoR to play them back on? As mentioned above, some do the "entire service" end-to-end, but definitely research them.

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morganfm71
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/21 14:08:17 (permalink)
My friend, Jeff, used this company with great results. 
 
http://thinbrownline.com/
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scook
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/21 14:22:31 (permalink)
similar thread which contains site recommendations http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3243890
I found the http://www.sonicraft.com/ site very informative.
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jerrypettit
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/22 08:02:50 (permalink)
Thanks for the local (USA) recommendations.  I think I'll be going with a "full service", rather than trying to do any of this myself.
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fwrend
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/22 08:43:23 (permalink)
I'm curious as to what sampling rate is typically used to transfer tape - higher the better or is there a "sweet spot" when it comes to transfer quality and restoration?
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bitflipper
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/22 09:46:23 (permalink)
Baking tapes is itself dangerous, and may be unnecessary. It depends on how the tapes were stored and how high-quality they are. I'd try it on one reel first. Use a very low temperature and don't over-bake! "Baking" is a misnomer - what you're really doing is drying the tape. 
 
I've read 40-year-old (high-quality) tapes with only some loss of high end, with no preparation other than running the tape at the slowest available speed from end to end, turning it over and running it back at slow speed (rather than using the rewind function, which will stress and stretch - or even break - old tape). This will un-stick the tape from itself and remove moisture from between the layers. You'll want to do this whether you bake first or not. Yes, there will be a fair amount of oxide on the heads and capstan when you're done, so it'll require a thorough cleaning before you start the playback.
 
It's also worth taking the time to perform an azimuth adjustment before you get started. If you don't have instructions on hand for your deck, manuals for most machines can be found online. It's not difficult (just time-consuming), and although normally done with an oscilloscope it's possible to do it using SONAR by carefully turning the adjustment screw by quarter-turns and recording or observing signal strength and spectrum. You'll know when the azimuth is optimal because that position will yield the best signal strength.
 
Try to capture the entire tape on one pass. You want to minimize how many times it drags across the heads, rollers and capstan. Save a backup of that first capture in case you have to go back to it. Once you've got the whole thing in one digital file you can then cut it up and process it any way you like.
 
When I last did this, I did not have the benefit of a good audio editor and had to rely entirely on EQ to get the hiss under control. If I was doing it today, I'd use a good noise remover such as RX, Sound Forge or Adobe Audition. It's amazing how well such programs can work.
 


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Cactus Music
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/22 10:21:05 (permalink)
My approch would be if the actual recordings are priceless and must be salvaged then I'd take it to the best people I could find. 
 
If it was any recording of any band I ever played in  :)  
Then I would just try it my self for the fun of it all. 
You havn't said if you still have the same machine it was recorded on or not. That would make it pretty simple. What does it say on the box? early 70's might have been a 4 track I guess. unless this is large format tape? What is the tape format??,, we are all wondering...
 
 
I like Bits advice as that makes perfect sense to me to just make sure it's dry and run the tape slow in both directions first. Then just make sure the machine is clean and de magnitized etc and dump it at a proper level into Sonar. I'd use 48Hz. Save and store the full run originals away in a safe place and then start having fun with the tracks. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/09/22 11:48:55

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#16
jerrypettit
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/23 07:59:54 (permalink)
I THINK it was just 2-track stereo reels, but not sure (maybe 4).  I've only recently located a child of my deceased bandmate, who found the reels at my request, and I won't have them in my possession for another week or so.
 
Meanwhile, I've been researching USA services for this.  I'm in Nebraska half-time and Virginia half-time.  I've found a place in Minnesota, Buffalo NY, Richmond VA.  If anyone here has a specific recommendation or does this themselves I'd be happy to do business.  (Some of the services are pretty "pricey"...)
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joel77
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/23 10:04:26 (permalink)
I've been reading this thread with interest. Thank for all the links. I've transferred many vinyl projects with much success, but I don't have the machines to transfer the tapes I have of family from many years ago.  
 
Great info here. Thanks all!

Joel  Glaser
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Teds_Studio
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/23 10:17:59 (permalink)
I have "baked" tapes before using a cardboard box and a 100w light bulb.  Worked like a charm...but just don't go off and leave it, check it frequently to make sure nothing is getting too hot to be dangerous (just use a little common sense).  It worked like a charm for me.
 
edited to add:
 
Of course it has to be an incandescent bulb   :)

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Cactus Music
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Re: I will be digitizing some reels from the early 70s... 2015/09/23 10:51:08 (permalink)
OK then for sure you'll be handing it over to someone else as I'm guessing you don't even have a tape machine on hand yourself. So once you get the tapes there would be little point buying a tape machine just for a one off project. Chances of finding a good working machine that matches the tape format are becoming harder each decade that passes. 

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