Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/22 18:52:37
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Er... A primitive version...
(Missed a trick).
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jpetersen
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 05:42:03
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I have been trying to get out of my cave lately, but when I try something I haven't used before, I run up against issues and bugs.
In another thread I wondered whether I was the only person really using Sonar.
This thread confirms my suspicion.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 08:42:28
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My chariot is swift and powerful when it works , I've already mastered the art of using Fire . I don't club all my future X's over the head w a Louisville Slugger when I first meet them . Hunting for my food is rather safe and all done in the comfort of a supermarket . Having said that , I can't seem to get behind the Whole Caveman Tag or Label ….. I got much deeper problems than that  The past couple of years I have spent litteraly treading water in what I will call a learning curve quick sand ….. Exercising patience and learning new things is something I'm OK with as long as I'm doing it in small achievable bite sized chunks or increments…. My progress seems very slow to me at this point . There happens to be a lot of features in SONAR that I still have to learn or make my Peace with them … Life used to be so simple for me when all I wanted to do was just play the guitar …. Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/09/23 08:55:44
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Danny Danzi
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 15:00:50
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kennywtelejazz
My chariot is swift and powerful when it works , I've already mastered the art of using Fire .
I don't club all my future X's over the head w a Louisville Slugger when I first meet them .
Hunting for my food is rather safe and all done in the comfort of a supermarket .
Having said that , I can't seem to get behind the Whole Caveman Tag or Label …..
I got much deeper problems than that
The past couple of years I have spent litteraly treading water in what I will call a learning curve quick sand …..
Exercising patience and learning new things is something I'm OK with as long as I'm doing it in small achievable bite sized chunks or increments….
My progress seems very slow to me at this point .
There happens to be a lot of features in SONAR that I still have to learn or make my Peace with them …
Life used to be so simple for me when all I wanted to do was just play the guitar ….
Kenny
That's the thing....and what I think a lot of guys are missing. You don't have to use anything more than what you know. I'm old school, so to me, Sonar is a big tape machine and I use it just like that. Punching in is easier as I used to have to find a spot in the song where I'd have to press play and record on my 16 track 1 inch. LOL!! It's like guitar rigs man.....some guys like a tube amp and maybe a tone booster or Tube Screamer. Other guys like a processed sound that entails several effects and routing. I have a Fractal Axe Fx XL+ which is a killer guitar processor. One of the best I've ever used. You can make it as simple as a stomp box into an amp....or a complex rack of gear that can make your head spin. Sonar, in my opinion, is in the same camp. Use what you need, ignore what you don't. Here's another thing to further drive the point. I beta test for a few really cool companies. I kinda felt like I was wasting their time to be a tester because I don't really use their programs like many others. For example, I've been with FxPansion testing BFD for a long time now. I don't need to program drums or use the loop stuff that come in the program because I'm a drummer and have a killer real kit as well as the top of the line V-Drums kit. I don't even use the effects or mixing options given and told the company that. Their reply was "we want guys like you that just use the program the way they use it. If everyone used it the same way, we'd never find the bugs we need to find." So, use whatever program you use, the way you use it. Primitive is great, as long as it's productive. I still think though that if anyone gets a little extra time, it's always cool to visit the "what's new in Sonar" in the help files. They now give us enough tutorials to where you can at least see what the program can do. Another quick story.... I don't create dance or hip hop stuff in my studio due to my clients always coming prepared with their own loops and grooves. These guys are as crazy with their loops and grooves as we guitar players are about our chops and tone. LOL! But anyway, I had a guy come in that needed me to create something for him from the ground up. Definitely uncharted waters for me....but low and behold, that particular week, I saw a "whats new in Sonar" option that made me curious, so I messed around with it and created a killer little piece of music before I even had to deal with this client. Having learned from the Sonar tutorial, I was up and running with some good choices for my client to which he liked 3 out of 5. So you just never know what you may grasp even if you are just exploring or heck, just watching a video or reading what capabilities Sonar has that you may never use. There is no right or wrong....unless of course a person is doing something the long way and there is a super short cut to get to the same place. LOL! :) Proud to be a caveman....as long as I get my work done and have a little fun, ya know? :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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robert_e_bone
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 17:35:28
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I have used Cakewalk since Twelve Tone days on a 5 1/4" floppy disc on a DOS computer.
And yet, in all that time - I have mostly done keyboard tracks - I don't do Take Lanes, nor do I do any serious editing of audio. I mostly do midi playing from my controllers, and sometimes guitar and vocals.
There are ZILLIONS of things that Sonar offers that I have never used, and may well never use.
A guitar player or a vocalist would likely have a whole different approach, and would face different challenges than what I do - that's normal. It's also one of the great things about these forums, because there are almost certainly some other set of folks that have experience with whatever area we may be currently struggling to get working properly, and it's absolutely fabulous that those folks are out there, and willing to bend over backwards to try to help.
So, PLAY your guitar, SING you vocal lines, do what you do, and when you need or want to do something in addition - use the reference manuals, look for YouTube videos, and come to the forums for help.
This is a GREAT community - so ROCK ON! :)
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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57Gregy
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 18:23:08
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I also use it as a recorder. I don't use a lot of VSTis and my bad hearing doesn't allow me to use a lot of EQ or mastering effects well.
I may add pan or volume envelopes, or some audio effects like chorus or flange, but mostly I just record.
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webbs hill studio
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 19:11:57
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"Sonar is a big tape machine and I use it just like that." "I also use it as a recorder" +1 Danny and Gregy. my job is to record the best wav I can and the difference between 8:5:3 and X4 is immaterial to me,in that context. the rest is just icing the cake .. I still think that most of the allure of upgrading is being able to master a new plugin or feature,battle a bug fix or whatever. mot of the replies here,so far, admit they do not actually need or use new features I imagine they would prefer fixing existing bugs. this reminds me of the 50`s automobile industry when they changed the colours and tailfins every year but the basic engine stayed the same. planned obsolescence. PS:I thought a Dim Pro was someone who was not very bright but made a living from it... cheers
post edited by webbs hill studio - 2015/09/23 19:22:01
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John T
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 19:16:24
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☄ Helpfulby John 2015/09/24 16:28:28
The way I tend to approach the feature set is very rarely to sit down to learn any particular thing. It's more that I just get on with what I'm doing, and from time to time, I'll run into something I need to do, so I'll have a poke around the help files and the forum to see if there's a way. And the more developed and mature Sonar becomes, the more rare it is that I can't do whatever has come up directly in Sonar. For example, we've had the vocal alignment thingy for nine months now, and I only first used it about two months ago. I was working on some vocal comps with a singer, and he said, literally, "is there a way of tightening up the doubles, like a vocal alignment thingy". And I thought, ah, there is! And it turned out to be totally easy to use, and solved our problem right away. Another example would be that I'd not given any thought at all to the addition of new export formats this year, and then I was doing a sound effects job recently, where they needed all the files in Ogg Vorbis format, and I thought, ah, great, they added that to Sonar, didn't they? Saved me having to have a post-export conversion process. I think that's what I particularly like about Sonar. All the well-known DAWs are good at lots of things, and some of them are especially good at a few things, but for my money, Sonar is the most comprehensive. Whether that matters to you will depend greatly on the kind of work you're doing with the program. Myself, I'm doing all kinds of stuff; band production, mixing, remixing, audiobook production, sound effects, all kinds. Whatever comes in that'll pay the rent, basically. And I very rarely have to go outside of Sonar (and its bundled instruments, effects and tools) to get anything done. Which is pretty impressive, I think.
post edited by John T - 2015/09/24 22:35:11
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John T
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/23 19:21:16
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☄ Helpfulby John 2015/09/24 16:28:21
Expanding on that, to me, it's like my studio has a tech team that I never see, but who just make improvements and additions when I'm out of the room. Occasionally, they do something that makes me go "ugh, guys, come on" - horribly slow start screen, I'm talking about you - but mostly, it's completely unobtrusive, and kind of amazing. "Hmm, whoever tracked this had no idea where to put a kick drum mic". "No problem chief, we installed a Drum Replacer when you went to the kitchen for a cup of tea. Here's a video on how it works".
post edited by John T - 2015/09/23 19:32:13
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stevec
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/24 11:59:00
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John T
Expanding on that, to me, it's like my studio has a tech team that I never see, but who just make improvements and additions when I'm out of the room. Occasionally, they do something that makes me go "ugh, guys, come on" - horribly slow start screen, I'm talking about you - but mostly, it's completely unobtrusive, and kind of amazing. "Hmm, whoever tracked this had no idea where to put a kick drum mic". "No problem chief, we installed a Drum Replacer when you went to the kitchen for a cup of tea. Here's a video on how it works".
I like it...
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/25 10:07:18
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Danny Danzi
kennywtelejazz
My chariot is swift and powerful when it works , I've already mastered the art of using Fire .
I don't club all my future X's over the head w a Louisville Slugger when I first meet them .
Hunting for my food is rather safe and all done in the comfort of a supermarket .
Having said that , I can't seem to get behind the Whole Caveman Tag or Label …..
I got much deeper problems than that
The past couple of years I have spent litteraly treading water in what I will call a learning curve quick sand …..
Exercising patience and learning new things is something I'm OK with as long as I'm doing it in small achievable bite sized chunks or increments….
My progress seems very slow to me at this point .
There happens to be a lot of features in SONAR that I still have to learn or make my Peace with them …
Life used to be so simple for me when all I wanted to do was just play the guitar ….
Kenny
That's the thing....and what I think a lot of guys are missing. You don't have to use anything more than what you know. I'm old school, so to me, Sonar is a big tape machine and I use it just like that. Punching in is easier as I used to have to find a spot in the song where I'd have to press play and record on my 16 track 1 inch. LOL!!
It's like guitar rigs man.....some guys like a tube amp and maybe a tone booster or Tube Screamer. Other guys like a processed sound that entails several effects and routing. I have a Fractal Axe Fx XL+ which is a killer guitar processor. One of the best I've ever used. You can make it as simple as a stomp box into an amp....or a complex rack of gear that can make your head spin. Sonar, in my opinion, is in the same camp. Use what you need, ignore what you don't.
Here's another thing to further drive the point. I beta test for a few really cool companies. I kinda felt like I was wasting their time to be a tester because I don't really use their programs like many others. For example, I've been with FxPansion testing BFD for a long time now. I don't need to program drums or use the loop stuff that come in the program because I'm a drummer and have a killer real kit as well as the top of the line V-Drums kit. I don't even use the effects or mixing options given and told the company that. Their reply was "we want guys like you that just use the program the way they use it. If everyone used it the same way, we'd never find the bugs we need to find."
So, use whatever program you use, the way you use it. Primitive is great, as long as it's productive. I still think though that if anyone gets a little extra time, it's always cool to visit the "what's new in Sonar" in the help files. They now give us enough tutorials to where you can at least see what the program can do. Another quick story....
I don't create dance or hip hop stuff in my studio due to my clients always coming prepared with their own loops and grooves. These guys are as crazy with their loops and grooves as we guitar players are about our chops and tone. LOL!
But anyway, I had a guy come in that needed me to create something for him from the ground up. Definitely uncharted waters for me....but low and behold, that particular week, I saw a "whats new in Sonar" option that made me curious, so I messed around with it and created a killer little piece of music before I even had to deal with this client. Having learned from the Sonar tutorial, I was up and running with some good choices for my client to which he liked 3 out of 5. So you just never know what you may grasp even if you are just exploring or heck, just watching a video or reading what capabilities Sonar has that you may never use. There is no right or wrong....unless of course a person is doing something the long way and there is a super short cut to get to the same place. LOL! :) Proud to be a caveman....as long as I get my work done and have a little fun, ya know? :)
-Danny
Danny sure I get what you are saying  The easiest thing in the world for me to do would be to use SONAR as a tape machine … I have a decent collection of Super Choice guitars and Vintage tube amps to use for my personal tones . Yet , I can't do anything that amounts to much at home due to apt living ..not even able to use my gear … The walls are too thin and there is way to much outside noise … to use a mic to record even one of my acoustics is an exercise in futillity …. All things are pointing to the fact that I need to find a space away from home to record .. In the mean time , I'm just over here paying some dues , doing my best to learn all the stuff I can about what is under the hood as far as features I may be able to use once I get a better grasp on how to use them … Caveman , Mountain Man , what difference does a label make at this point .. Even my pooch is starting to be getting on my case . It seems I've put him through a lot of unintended pain and suffering … Here is the note he left me on my refrigerator just this morning  i got to love that dog , at least he Barks the truth  Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/09/25 10:24:17
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robert_e_bone
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/25 14:53:04
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Hey - where did you get a picture of my first wife? hee hee
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/25 17:42:30
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robert_e_bone
Hey - where did you get a picture of my first wife? hee hee
Bob Bone
Hey Bob, Thats Duke …. he really does not feel that way about my music at all , it's just me poking fun at myself Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/09/26 09:32:09
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Danny Danzi
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/28 16:13:42
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kennywtelejazz
Danny sure I get what you are saying
The easiest thing in the world for me to do would be to use SONAR as a tape machine …
I have a decent collection of Super Choice guitars and Vintage tube amps to use for my personal tones .
Yet , I can't do anything that amounts to much at home due to apt living ..not even able to use my gear …
The walls are too thin and there is way to much outside noise …
to use a mic to record even one of my acoustics is an exercise in futillity ….
All things are pointing to the fact that I need to find a space away from home to record ..
In the mean time , I'm just over here paying some dues , doing my best to learn all the stuff I can about what is under the hood as far as features I may be able to use once I get a better grasp on how to use them …
Caveman , Mountain Man , what difference does a label make at this point ..
Even my pooch is starting to be getting on my case . It seems I've put him through a lot of unintended pain and suffering …
Here is the note he left me on my refrigerator just this morning
i got to love that dog , at least he Barks the truth
Kenny
LOL!! Nah, don't be too hard on yourself. Trust me, I'm right with you. I'm good with recording stuff and sounds, but if someone that really knew Sonar watched me work, they would enjoy the entertainment factor. Funny story.... I had a guy come to me for recording lessons in person. I usually do video's of me mixing people's songs and I get a chance to edit all my slip ups, curse words and little imperfections out. LOL! Well this poor dude saw me and all my glorious flaws. Hahahaha! He must have given me Sonar advice like 8 times during the two days he was here. We had a laugh about it...but he really helped me. Stupid stuff Kenny...like holding Shift when moving clips or midi notes so they stay locked in during a move. I never thought to do that....I always just tried to move things as carefully as possible. LOL! I actually felt like a dope at first....and then said "ya know, I'm not teaching this guy Sonar....I'm teaching him mixing/sound identification and how to make his material sound right. I shouldn't feel as much like a dope...just maybe a little. Hahahaha! So hey, we helped each other, had a blast of a weekend and I learned a bit too. I'm still a cave man with Sonar...but I'm doing what I gotta do, ya know? And hey....I got two dogs yelling at me.....my one tries to howl with me whenever I sing. I still haven't figured out whether he likes it and is trying to harmonize, or it's upsetting him so bad, he's trying to drown me out. LOL!! I recently did a cover of Deep Purple's "Perfect Strangers". Not sure if you're familiar with it, but there are some pretty decent vocal note holds. While I was singing and trying to hold out these notes, I kept on hearing this extra note with me that was driving me crazy. I finally solo'd up the track and sure enough, my dog was howling from upstairs along with me LOL! I had to close my door (which is insulated and thick thankfully) which I should have done anyway. Hahaha! So I can definitely relate! :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/29 08:07:35
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Haha my cat "howls" whenever I go downstairs to play guitar. I plug in and play a few notes and he comes and starts yelling at me to stop :)
I like to compare using a DAW to an artist playing music. There are two fundamental aspects to it - technique and art. Being a DAW developer I've been in studios where someone else has mixed our music and I've seen engineers who had poor editing technique but great ears for mixing. Bottom line is you can have all the technique with a DAW in the world and still produce poor music because you don't have the "art". Given a choice I would take art over technique any day. Although when I'm paying the bill it helps having someone who is efficient as well :)
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John T
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/09/29 08:31:23
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I used to know a band who rehearsed in a basement under a shop. There was a parrot living in the shop, as the owner had bought it while out drinking one night, and his wife had refused to have it kept in the house. I swear I'm not making this up.
Anyway, after a while, the parrot got really good at mimicking the sound of a guitar feeding back. It was very strange and unnerving.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/10/01 17:12:29
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Hello Danny , You told a nice story there . I did enjoy what you had to say very much Kenny
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twelvetone
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/10/02 09:40:34
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Oh boy, now look what you guys have done. Noel was here...
...I can just imagine the next company meeting:
"Forget all the great ideas, nobody's using them anyway"
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Afrodrum
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/10/02 11:12:42
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I am not a full time caveman. My life was changed with improved comping, Melodyne and Addictive Drums 2 (I am clueless why not everybody loves it).
Windows 10/64, Intel i7 Xeon X6575 3,07GHz, 24Gb RAM, chipset: Intel X58 Express, Kingston SSD 240Gb, Sonar Platinum ∞, Edirol UA-25. ( Some extra VSTs: PSP almost all/ IK - AT4, ST3, / AAS - all/ TH3 full/ +10dB/ Melodyne Editor). EVE sc205 monitors, Defil Kosmos guitar, blue lava lamp, ashtray. And there is some great music you may find at: https://soundcloud.com/pawel-jan-1
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Zargg
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/10/02 13:03:28
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I kinda feel like a caveman in SONAR terms. I feel I am only scratching the surface when I feel adventurous. And still sits here with a dumb look on my face, when some of the geniuses here explain things way out of my "expertise" as second nature to them. But I am loving it This place rocks!
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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MarioD
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Re: I Must Be A Caveman.
2015/10/02 14:24:36
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When I said that I was also a caveman that did not mean that I stopped looking at what was offered! It meant that I have my own preferred workflow. This workflow works best for me, for instance I do not use comping, I learn the song prior to recording but I may punch in/out at times. HOWEVER I do look at all of the new options that the bakers offer and I do add things that enhance that workflow. Things like Melodyne, the improved console view, AD2, etc.
The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better. Sonar Platinum, Intel i7 –2600 CPU @ 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ram, 2x2TB internal drives and 1 1TB internal drive, Radeon HD 5570 video card, HP 25" monitor,
Roland Octa Capture, MOTU Midi Express 128, Win 10 Pro
www.soundcloud.com/Mario_Guitar
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