How do you organise your clips/tracks?

I'm just asking to find out what methods people use to organise their stuff.
In my FL version, no single track could be more than 16 bars long, so I might have say 9 drum tracks, each 4 bars, each with variations. There might also be 12 piano tracks and in the sequencer, I'd line these up vertically and horizontally to have the right drum pattern trigger at the same time as the appropriate piano part. It won't let me attach a screenshot from my computer, so I hope you understand what I mean.
 
In Sonar, the track length seems unlimited. I can put all the drum parts on one track which saves a lot of screen space vertically, but is this a good idea?
Is it better to use smaller parts and still have the matter of arranging their individual timings?
Because of Sonar's different structure, that would require more instances of synthesizers I think.
So, what techniques/strategies to experienced users utilise to bring a project together?
 
Just so we're all clear on this, I'm not asking for a solution to a problem, I'm asking for your opinions and best practice suggestions, thank you.

Sounds like you were using some SEVERELY crippled demo version of FL studio.
 
Now that you own Sonar just go apeballs however you want but yes... a track is of unlimited length. Use ONE track per instrument and record/program whatver you want into it.
 
Within the track are "Take Lanes". Each take lane can hold a different performance/recording and will play through the same track. These lanes are comprised of MIDI or Audio clips. You generally only want one lane playing within a track at one time (but with a slight overlap of clips in the lanes with crossfades so the various "Takes" blend nicely together).
 
So... if you record five takes into the same track they will show up in the take lanes as their own distinct "Lane". From there you can slice and dice/mix and match these performances by using the "Comping" feature or other editing methods inside the same track.
 
If you are not aware of how to use or access these features just search in the manual for "Take Lanes", "Comping", "Comp Mode", "Smart Tool" and so on. There will be other links/references for each entry that can lead you to other info on this process.
 
To totally answer your question... I (and pretty much everyone) just record into a track as many times as I want/need to and all those recordings show up as distinct lanes. Once I feel I have recorded enough good/useable takes I start to "Edit" using "Comp Mode". Basically that is the process of going through all the takes I just recorded, finding the best parts of each take then using the "Comp Tool" to "Promote" those parts so they are audible (and everything else that occurs at that point on the other takes becomes muted).
 
By doing this I create the best track I can out of all the recordings I made.
 
You do NOT want to stack your tracks like you described for FL. THat is a ridiculous and crummy workflow which you obviously only had to do because of some weird limitation.
 
There are videos on this site under the CakeTV/Cake University section that show how to do this. I recommend watching pretty much all those vids as well as checking out the manual.
 
 
However now that I think of it what you MAY be referring to is the Step Sequencer in FL Studio. That is a completely different subject. Those aren't "tracks". Those lines output to tracks. The Step Sequencer in Sonar will generate "Step Sequencer" clips in the "Track View" that you can then edit, drag out and generally manipulate however you want. You can also convert them into proper MIDI clips that can be edited more precisely in the "Piano Roll View".
 
These are all topics you should be looking into. I'm just throwing words, names, topics and ideas at you to search. If you are totally stuck in only using the Step Sequencer you are seriously limited within the program.
 
Yes you can extend the Step Sequence pattern out REALLY far in Sonar but that is not how you want to program MIDI.
 
Damn... it's really hard to explain in a single post because there are dozens of interrelated topics that need to be understood.
 
Go through the tutorials at the start of the manual, watch the vids on CakeTV and come back. Those explain a LOT.

I have an old, but fully enabled version of FL and yes, the step sequencer was my baby.
Very easy to see and arrange all the variations in my patterns with multiple patterns for a single instrument instance.
The problem I have with one long track in Sonar is, say, having to write down notes about where the verse ends, the chorus starts etc, because it's all one big long row of dots (midi data) and I need to coordinate where the drums change etc.
FL was far more visual.
I have been through quite a lot of stuff on Youtube and Cake tv, but I haven't seen this sort of info discuseed, so I thought I'd ask you all.
Bye the way, I only use virtual instruments, so the comping feature is completely irrelevant to me.
So far in Sonar, I've got one acoustic guitar track with one drum track.
They're quite well mixed, but following the changes between sections is troublesome, hence my query.

Also... if you want to add a screenshot to a post in the forum so we can see what you mean you should be able to now that you have over 25 posts (this forum does not allow links until you hit 25).
 
You just need to take the screenshot, upload the image to something like Photobucket or Imageshack, click the "Insert Image" button on the comment box (it's at the very bottom right of all the comment tools) then insert the image URL into the popup dialog.
 
This does all seem to be more Sonar forum stuff though. The "Techniques" sub forum is usually more about general production techniques as opposed to using Sonar specifically. The Sonar forum also has a lot more people reading/commenting in it so you'll get more eyeballs and suggestions there.
 
If you need general audio advice though the Techniques tab rocks. I read it "and the Sonar forum" every day.

Although I don't use SS IIRC you can rename the lanes and route/arrange them however you like. It just takes a bit of studying/fiddling which I personally haven't done yet. I do have various tutorials on video that show this type of thing (the CakeTV ones don't go as in depth).
 
If you have a few bucks and it's on sale I would HIGHLY recommend picking up the SWA Sonar X2/X3 Complete video series available in the Cake Store. It's a little pricey when it's not on sale but can be had for cheap occasionally. Even at full price it's still the best and most thorough compilation of tuts I've come across and explains things like this in great detail.
 
Even though it's X2/X3 based most of the stuff is still completely current and most definitely the things you are inquiring about are covered. Totally worth it and I reference it regularly.
 
You seem like a smart fellow so I think something like that will help you sort it out without mucking around the manual too much (which is a PITA... I'll admit).
 
As far as getting a workflow together based on your OP... it's a little difficult because it's hard to really know what you're trying to do exactly. My impression is that if you had a handle on some of the Sonar basics (and a little bit beyond the basics) you'd be able to find your groove. I understand want your end goal is but I'm just not seeing how you are currently trying to approach it or how you did it before.
 
Using Sonar effectively unfortunately requires a brief but steep learning curve to really get on top of things which is why I'm recommending those vids and tossing any questions in the main Sonar forum. These are procedural/program related questions and they totally will get the attention they need in the Sonar forum. It is of course there to solve problems as well but when one needs to know how to do something within the program or just see how others do stuff that sub really is your best bet. I post there all the time for similar advice and have learned a ton by doing so.
 
As I said this area is mostly general audio stuff not really related to Sonar itself. Like mixing or outboard stuff or whatever. Managing clips, MIDI, SS, tracks, etc within Sonar is totally the type of thing you'll get mounds of help on in the Sonar forum.
 
Cheers and I'm glad you decided to stick it out. You won't be disappointed.
 

How I organize my tracks.
 
I set up a new folder every year. It's simply called by the 4 digit year.
 
In each, I set up a separate sub folder for each song project.  All project files are placed in this folder.
 
I'm planning to go into the DAW and set up new folders for the single MP3/Waves of songs placed with publishers and libraries, with the folder named for the Library/Publisher ...to make it easier to see who has what in their catalog.
 
Simple is better.
 

Thanks Sharke, I have read the appropriate sections of the manual and watched appropriate tutorials but only to look for an answer to my problem.
The closest thing I can get to the FL Sequencer view is multiple overlays in the PRV, but there is a limit to how many different colours of midi data you can comprehend.
Multiple clips help a bit, but only with organisation.
Markers, matrix view and step sequencer clips don't do enough for me either.
Having to work with all the instrument data in one long track is a huge step backwards.
I took it for granted that the spreadsheet-style columns and rows interface would be in all DAWs, but it would seem that I was wrong
The spreadsheet view is absolutely key to my compositing of a musical track (entire instrumental).
It makes it very easy to subdivide instruments/patterns/variations and align their relative timing precisely.
I understand that for people recording audio data, Sonar will be good, but for me, it has created more problems than it has solved.

Hello again Beepster,
I am struggling to find a host for my explanatory screenshot.
One of the other ones you mentioned earlier is a subscription site.
Hopefully, I'll find something soon.
The closest approximation is Excel, where each row is a pattern for a single or multiple instruments and each column is a number of bars/time.
Drums could be cells A1 and A3 with B2 having a cymbal added and C4 a snare roll.
Cells D1 to D4 have the same piano chords.
Therefore, timing the drums exactly with their matching piano part is very easy because all the columns are the same width and time, not an endless stretch to the right of the screen.
I spent six hours on Sunday trying to get a drum pattern in 32nd notes to match a guitar line.
Neither fun, nor funny :0)
Matrix view is performance orientated and cannot hold enough data to meet my requirements.
Some of my FL instrumentals are 40 rows by 80 columns, though usually smaller.
 
p.s. I loved your "apeballs" comment earlier.
I wish I could, and then I wouldn't have to spend time typing on the forum because everything would flow!
Thanks again for your input.

Use imgur for your photos. Guaranteed quickest and easiest way.