magik570
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Best way to start your mix from scratch?
A few months ago I did a mix which I was not very happy with. I feel I have learned few more tricks and want to give it another shot. I want to start from zero. Is there a magic button that can make all plugins and prochannel setup disappear? At this point I am thinking may be I should export all dry tracks and import in a new project and start fresh. Is that what you would do?
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twelvetone
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 11:58:17
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If they are all full-length stems, then yes, that's what I do. If there are clips that start a way into the song, this is what I do: First trim them (destructive) then slip edit the start all the way to the beginning of the song. Now bounce that down to a fresh track and the beginning will be pure silence. After you have done this to all your tracks, remove the old tracks and save the entire project to a new directory. The files in the Audio subfolder of your new project folder will now only contain the tracks starting from the beginning, making lining up much easier.
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Lord Tim
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 12:32:04
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Try using Mix Recall and choosing the Reset Mix option. You may need to go into the settings to make sure it's deleting plugins, etc. but that should get you back to scratch really quickly.
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Beepster
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 13:08:27
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magik570 At this point I am thinking may be I should export all dry tracks and import in a new project and start fresh. Is that what you would do?
That's what I do. It can be a bit of a pain in the balls if you are dealing with "comped" clips but in a lot of ways getting rid of the "comp" factor is mentally cleansing so you can start raw. That of course would require you are happy with your editing which is another subject. I did this very recently on a totally chaotic set of tracks recorded/edited before I knew how to work with Sonar. Essentially a bunch clips spread out over a bunch of tracks, cloned, doubled, things recorded into those clones that were (and weren't need)... total mess. I went through and figured out EXACTLY which clips/parts were needed (and not clones) and cobbled together more intelligent tracks (so two rhythm guit tracks, one bass, one drum and then a logical set of tracks for leads). I disabled the PC and FX bin on everything (I did this manually one track at a time but you can disable everything in a project using the MixModule in the ControlBar or I think the keybinding is E... not sure if that disables PC stuff as well) Then on the dry tracks I set levels so they were peaking around -12db (I do this on dry exports to leave enough headroom for effects later on... might require normalization or automation). I'm not sure if that's the right way to go but it works for me. Export the dry TRACKS (not the busses... you gotta set that up in the Export dialog) then set up new tracks for each in the new project then import the clips into the appropriate tracks (I don't just import and let Sonar do it automagically). I actually created a "Temp" folder in my Cake Content folder for stuff like this so I can just drag the clips in from the Browser if I want right into the tracks (instead of using the File > Import thing every time... that saves a little hassle). You just gotta make sure when you export your tracks that you have your timeline set at the start of the project (00:00:00) so all the clips can just be butted up against the start of the new project (or if you left too much silence at the start of the original project you can export from further down the Timeline but you gotta use the SAME spot each time... so everything gets exported from measure 2 or 3 or whatever with no deviations... but you can just snip and move in the new project anyway so it's not hard to remove start silence). That of course exports silence in between clips as well which adds to the size of the files but I prefer to start with project length clips anyway and I can slice and dice afterward instead of mucking around with timestamp bullpizzle. If you have MIDI files you want to use/route to new synths in the new project click on the MIDI clip and add a single note at the very first beat of the very first measure. That note will make the clip extend to the start of the project so you can drag it intot he new project and just butt it up to the start of the timeline just like you dod with the audio. You can delete the note afterward in the new project. Then just drag and drop the MIDI clip into a Browser folder (for example like my "Temp" folder in the Cake Content) and then in the new project set up a new MIDI track and drag that file into it (butting it up against the start of the project). Route it to whatever synth and audio outputs you want or drag it into multiple MIDI track setups to try it out on different synths until you find something you like (then delete the rest). Of course you can just disable all effects in your current project but my tracking/creation projects are super chaotic and jammed with takes. Once I get my editing done I find it a LOT easier to deal with mix stuff in a totally clean project with just the final (post editing) files. Also frees up a ton of computer resources (Sonar doesn't have to constantly anticipate you calling up files you have no intention of using) so you can go more nuts with the effects without dropouts/glitches. Gets rid of any potential project corruption/gremlins your tracking/editing file may have picked up as you worked (my projects get less and less stable as time goes on so a fresh start gets rid of that crap). Just how I do it... I'm not a pro engineer. Cheers.
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Adq
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 16:10:56
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I'm not that kind of person who would ever think about deleting all and start from zero. If I'm not happy with what I hear, I would mute tracks until I find what instruments could sound acceptable, for example drums and bass, or guitars, and then I would change and fix tracks one by one starting from that core sound, and adding more tracks to it, cloning or copying existing tracks, and archiving old. For me it is more soft and predictable way to achieve new mix, because very often I get new track version sounding just not right, lacking something important, so I need old version to compare, and take best from both if needed.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 18:28:40
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☄ Helpfulby morganfm71 2015/10/02 10:16:13
Well , the easiest thing you could do if you like all the parts you tracked is to open up the parent project , delete all the plugs and do a save as using a different name…. ex ……My Song V . 2 … Everything will be there and you can start from scratch , also you will still have the original project for safe keeping and comparison . Kenny
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 21:01:00
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Try re-recording the song from scratch. Worst case is you waste a couple hours. Best case is that having heard the song for a while, it's kind of like what happens after playing a song on the road for a few months and then going into the studio. I've never had a situation where re-recording a song didn't end up with something better. You may find that the re-recorded song just ends up "mixing itself." I'm not saying this is always the best route, but as long as you don't record over the original, you have nothing to lose
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noynekker
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 21:27:12
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☄ Helpfulby magik570 2015/10/02 12:45:06
I haven't found the magic reset button when a mix goes poorly. Exporting and Importing into a new project seems like trying to start the painting all over again I like to think there were some good things about my mix worth keeping Some of the new fancy plugins can easily wreck a mix if applied incorrectly, or overdone. So what I do, is what I've done many times: Save as . . . same project with a new name Try to delete the plugins, and EQ that you think have ruined your mix Pan everything centre Start reassessing each of the track levels with respect to each other, while being conscious of the master bus level Low pass filter where needed Add plugins to taste, pan where appropriate, shake and stir, export to audio, listen to the mix on different speakers in a few different locations. Sleep at least 8 hours, listen again. Sit back, appreciate what you and Sonar have done.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 21:37:20
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If you new to creating music you may tend to overuse all the goodies and tools supplied. A good sounding recording starts with,,,, a good sounding recording. I do very little to my tracks after the fact. I try and record my tracks as perfectly and with the best tones I can first. With a heavy soft synth project I look for good sounds and if anything this is something I may keep messing with down the road. Drums samples are a PITA as there are so many. Sometimes you may have to many instruments or guitar tracks so mute is your friend there. Roll the song back to drums and bass and slowy add parts. Don;t add to much reverb or delay until the final mix. Listen with sparse effects, effects can cover up garbage and mistakes that is still there.. But if your talking about a few tracks of audio that your happy with the recording but can't seem to balance the mix, then that is where mix recall is your freind.
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 21:39:53
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noynekker I haven't found the magic reset button when a mix goes poorly. Agreed, I think if a song refuses to mix itself, it's trying to tell you something. Exporting and Importing into a new project seems like trying to start the painting all over again Tweet-worthy!! And it's even under 140 characters
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/01 23:01:12
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noynekker Exporting and Importing into a new project seems like trying to start the painting all over again
Yes, that is very good advice  …..I've done that enough times to know that that approach can be a real time waster . On the other side of the coin , that would be a good approach when a person wants to build up their own library of loops and song segments they have rolled from scratch  The advantage of going there would be once a little time away from the song has passed , they no longer have to reference what they were trying to do in the song .. That frees them up to make some very radical or creative musical decisions they may not have thought to try out or experiment with . it's all good , Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/10/01 23:28:02
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Sidroe
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/02 09:03:45
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I always start with drums and bass and work from there. BTW, here's a tip for you! If you're working on a track with a drummer and some latin percussion, I have found that unless there is a break in the song for the percussion instruments you may as well dump any shaker sounds if there is a lot of hihat. I have yet to be on a recording date that shakers didn't get dumped because they either get lost in the mix or it confuses the way you hear the hihat. Just one less instrument to deal with. When I say shakers, I am referring to the egg shaped, maracas can cut thru the mix pretty good and tube shakers SOMETIMES work better but those eggs get lost really quick in a dense mix.
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morganfm71
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/02 10:20:25
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☄ Helpfulby magik570 2015/10/02 12:48:16
The "save as" works great for me. Sonar copies only the audio files I am actually using into the new project audio folder. Then I just delete all of the fx inserts, etc. Sometimes I will actually delete all of the tracks and then import the audio files onto blank tracks. I don't have any qualms with starting over like that. As long as I still have the previous mix in another project, I'm happy to start another one, or two versions.
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morganfm71
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/02 12:46:31
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Sidroe If you're working on a track with a drummer and some latin percussion, I have found that unless there is a break in the song for the percussion instruments you may as well dump any shaker sounds if there is a lot of hihat.
Have you considered panning the shaker to the opposite side relative to the hats? I mean, you can get some really cool syncopations going between those two cats.
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vanceen
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/02 13:51:17
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I always copy my selected takes into a new project after freezing any MIDI. In principle I try not to use effects, automation, panning, sends, etc. during the tracking stage. As somebody said, if your takes don't sound OK like that, you probably need to retrack. I've done that many times and Anderton is right, it nearly always sounds better. Then in the "new" project there is nothing playing in hidden tracks, no weirdness lurking in track lanes, no MIDI instruments that disappear because they aren't in the latest version of Komplete, nothing that disappears into labyrinths of routing, and so on. If you hit a wall later, it's easy to go back to the clean version if you save it. Works for me, anyway.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Best way to start your mix from scratch?
2015/10/02 15:09:00
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The complexities that are involved in creating a satisfying mix of a musical performance be it a song , a mix for release or any other purpose the mix is gonna serve can have a staggering amount of decisions that need to be made during each and every step of the process For myself personally , I choose not to ascribe to the self limiting concept of Right or Wrong . An alternative mental concept that opens doors and has no hint of limitation for me is , What is an effective production workflow value ? Is this production value something that already exists ? Who here on the Cakewalk forum (or anyplace else ) is putting it out there for people to learn ? Can I learn how to do it ? Will this new information serve the music I'm looking to express and capture ? The flip side of the coin involves a lot of humility and self honesty …. What am I doing now that I could be doing a lot better ? Am I doing it this way because I am just being lazy ? Has holding on to an older production workflow that may have worked in the past given me the results I am looking to accomplish today in my music ? Can I accept that this way no longer works for me and be OK with it ? Can I give myself a break and accept that it is time to open myself up to learn new ways of doing things? For the sake of brevity, I will stop there with the soul searching and questions By going there, my primary goal is to create the spark that Ignites my Creativity and guides that creative energy into a positive flow and movement of energy . A positive movement of energy always brings new growth with it . A negative movement of energy will also bring new growth . (once the lesson it came to bring has been learned and overcome .) A secondary benefit of the new growth and flow is that it brings with it the transmutation and availability of all the negative energy that was once put on hold in limbo while trying to maintain the status quo of non movement and stagnation …. This energy that was once dormant has now become unlocked and available to use . Feel free to question my Ideas and concepts . I can assure you that this indeed does apply to music production , mixing and many other art forms and creative pursuits people engage in for that matter . Absolute creative expression , even in it's most basic elemental form knows no boundaries unless we choose to put them there Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/10/02 18:09:15
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