Helpful ReplyLooking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar...

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n13L5
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2015/10/04 06:19:24 (permalink)

Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar...

Studio One's "Arranger Track" function allows you to create song sections that cut through all project tracks, allowing you to easily copy or move a bridge or refrain to another section of the song with all tracks attached and aligned.
 
I'd like to figure out how to do the same in Sonar, it would save sooo much time!
 
So I figure maybe I just didn't dig deep enough to find a way to let me do something similar in Sonar
 
 
Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
 
 
 
 
Look at the sections in this image: Intro A, Intro B, Intro C, each can be moved back or forth with a single drag operation with all tracks attached and staying aligned. Very useful...

post edited by n13L5 - 2015/10/04 06:30:50

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#1
EyjolfurG
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 07:18:31 (permalink)
You would have to add marker and tempo change at begining of each section. Then select all tracks and split clips at that point. When you have finished sliceing up the whole project like that you can insert measures where where you want and move sections with cut and paste. And finaly delete the the gap afterwards.

Eyjolfur G.
#2
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 08:08:17 (permalink)
there was this a feature request thread a while ago ... you might want to vote and bump
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/An-arrange-window-m3104937.aspx
 
in there you find a few tips, like e.g. this one

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#3
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 12:26:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby morganfm71 2015/10/04 12:44:44
I use Clip Groups. It's the same way Vegas moves blocks of audio and video around, so I'm very used to it. You can even insert a "dummy" clip at the top of the group and name it "chorus" or whatever. There are only three cautions:
 
  • In Preferences, under snap to grid, DON'T select snap to zero crossings because...
  • You want clean splits at precise boundaries (e.g., measures)
  • If you've already started to automate things (which probably isn't a good idea if you're still arranging the song, but whatever), don't forget to enable moving automation with clips.
 
Once the song is arranged, then I remove all clips from their Groups. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#4
lawajava
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 15:53:36 (permalink)
Granted the Arranger concept sounds easy.

I accomplish essentially the same thing in every song I work on in Sonar Platinum with a bit of extra effort.

0. I start with a starting file where this is already set up for the most part.

1. I use Markers. Enough said, everyone gets that they help mark and navigate and more.

2. My top track in each of my songs is a MIDI track. I put a measure of 4 hi hat notes in there just to give the track a clip with data. I then copy and Paste several more of those clips on that track. I set the background color of each to a different color.

3. I record tracks for the song. When I know what set of measures is verse 1, I drag one of the clips on the first track for that span. Similar for other sections. This ends up looking like your Arranger line in the screenshot above. In Sonar, instead of a dedicated program display line, I'm using a track with colored clips. I use the Clip text edit to put the words in the clips so they say Verse 1, Chorus 1, etc.

4. Moving sections of a song from one place to another, or duplicating sections, has always been fairly easy in Sonar. Different approaches exist to accomplish that actually. I happen to use the Select By Time choice under the Edit menu. This allows me to grab a block of any of the song, and to cut it, move it, etc.

I don't feel like I'm lacking an Arranger capability in Sonar since I do this. But I agree it's not a built-in, any new user knows how to do this, feature.

Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
#5
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 16:47:35 (permalink)
lawajava
Moving sections of a song from one place to another, or duplicating sections, has always been fairly easy in Sonar. Different approaches exist to accomplish that actually. I happen to use the Select By Time choice under the Edit menu. This allows me to grab a block of any of the song, and to cut it, move it, etc.



This is a very good alternative to the Clip Group-based approach I mentioned when you want to work with a little more fluidity.
 
Here's a topic that's not specifically about arranging, but about one of the advantages of non-linear recording. When writing a song, I might come with a chorus first, or an instrumental hook, or the last verse. So, I often record just that section, then move down the timeline and record something else, leaving a relatively large space between the two. That makes it real easy to group all the clips and move them around during the song construction process.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#6
skinnybones lampshade
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 17:14:28 (permalink)
(Sorry! I meant to post to the feature request thread about this subject)
 
post edited by skinnybones lampshade - 2015/10/04 17:28:26
#7
Vastman
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/04 23:33:18 (permalink)
Pumpkinhead Pete
No need to mess with work around's, just use the real thing, the arranger track and the scratch pad in Studio One are IMO awesome, as is Studio One in general, I find I can get stuff done much quicker in the Studio One environment, and find I feel at home, and things just feel right, the way you do stuff, workflow, whatever, it just feels better, natural or something, plus it has quite a number of features that since I have become acquainted with them I really wouldn't want to be without. Only started using Studio One on release of Studio One 3 back in June or July or something I think, since then haven't really touched Sonar, just never felt the desire.  


There are many other aspects of composing and songwriting beyond an arranging system that cubase and a number of DAWs have beside Studio One, troll...
 
For example, track templates... I find them indispensable and use them on EVERY song...They are very complex and it use to take loads of time to try and recreate them in new compositions.... I can pull from 50+ customized track setups that I've created and saved and add any number of them to build a new song's structure...including templates for vocals, multiple synths, multiple Kontakt routings, effects, subs, and any mixture I find potentially useful and save as a template... they load in 5 seconds.  I can load as many as I want.   This is the most powerful feature I've ever imagined and Cakewalk has implemented it beautifully...   Studio One 3 doesn't have this... there is a LOT of frustration about this and other things that S3 lacks... I could go on and on but then again, I'd be trying to talk to someone who has only been here since yesterday and is already spewing as if they were a studio 1 employee...
 
 n13L5... I love ur hat! 
 
post edited by Vastman - 2015/10/05 00:05:25

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#8
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 02:07:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Skyline_UK 2015/10/05 03:26:24
Joined yesterday, seven posts.
 
The lack of courtesy shown to the company that pays for this forum so he can promote another DAW is truly mind-boggling. 
 
SONAR users are simply a better class of people. You don't see them going into other forums and mocking other DAWs. They're probably too busy being productive and making music to spend time elsewhere.
 

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#9
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 02:10:59 (permalink)
The nonlinear approach seems to give me the most freedom …Been doing it that way for a long while …
One thing I like about it is you are not forced into rushing through trying to finish song parts in a strict time line and settling for something you know you can do better  …
All the little sections and motifs have room to breath and to develop …
May even have a couple of sections grouped in a time zone that have started out with the same parts and ingredients  I have found it is pretty easy to accentuate all the different elements by adding  parts and delete parts deliberately to be able do a side by side comparrison of what works and what doesn't work .
This type of work is best done in a safe time Zone of the project …. 
I got into this whole thing by taking test mix's of tunes I was working on and slicing them up. Even when taking an almost fully developed song that was lacking that something extra , I would always find an interesting part here and there that would help out the song depending on who you ask 
Some how that type of workflow worked its way into song projects that  i was starting from scratch   
 
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Larry Jones
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 02:11:33 (permalink)
Anderton
The lack of courtesy shown to the company that pays for this forum so he can promote another DAW is truly mind-boggling. 
 

Don't worry. No matter how hard he "promotes," not many of us are jumping ship. Maybe none. Also, users here are pretty good at spotting a troll.

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#11
mudgel
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 03:44:56 (permalink)
I use StudioOne at times. I tried the arranger track and the Scratchpad and as much as I like it, it doesn't come anywhere near Mix Recall when you really now how to make use of it properly. Would I like the arranger view? Sure but I have a way to do that and with Mix Recall added to the mix, I think Sonar is still the better fit for me.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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dcumpian
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 08:31:12 (permalink)
Pumpkinhead Pete
No need to mess with work around's, just use the real thing, the arranger track and the scratch pad in Studio One are IMO awesome, as is Studio One in general, I find I can get stuff done much quicker in the Studio One environment, and find I feel at home, and things just feel right, the way you do stuff, workflow, whatever, it just feels better, natural or something, plus it has quite a number of features that since I have become acquainted with them I really wouldn't want to be without. Only started using Studio One on release of Studio One 3 back in June or July or something I think, since then haven't really touched Sonar, just never felt the desire.  




Presonus must be getting desperate...
 
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Dan

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#13
BobF
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 08:59:32 (permalink)
Have you noticed that Studio One gets smaller every version?
 
Studio 1/1, Studio 1/2, Studio 1/3 ...
 
I don't know about you folks, but I want MORE when I upgrade instead of less 

Bob  --
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#14
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 13:20:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vastman 2015/10/05 23:51:58
I can make a list of tons of things SONAR does that Studio One can't do. I can also list very cool features Studio One has that other DAWs don't have. And what would that prove?
 
Stand back, and be prepared for a profound realization: Products from different companies are made by different developers who have different priorities, which results in different features.
 
Yes, I realize this is an earth-shaking, precedent-shattering concept which has never been mentioned before by anyone on planet earth. In fact, I thought long and hard about the awesome responsibility involved in revealing this Ancient Esoteric Knowledge to the masses. But be strong - I believe you can handle the truth. 

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 17:28:39 (permalink)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
I'm glad I was standing back when I read that . Almost sprayed my computer screen with coffee and laughter after hearing that one.
 
Kenny

                   
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#16
CSW
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 17:39:11 (permalink)
I've been messing with studio one lately and it does have some excellent workflow features but so does Sonar.
 
Sonar's Mix recall is something I use all of the time and don't want to live without.....it's really an amazing feature however I would like the Cakewalk to enhance "Mix Recall" Manager so that you can select and delete mixes without having to load them. Maybe import mixes back in as well. Is there a way to do this already?  
 
Craig
#17
lawajava
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 20:19:07 (permalink)
I'm seeing comments of a non linear approach. I get that has some merit.

I feel though that I get the best with a linear approach. I just record the way I think a piece could flow naturally.

Then, any time along the way if I want to open up space to slip in another section, or move something I use Select By Time. It's like moving parts of the song around like Lego blocks.

I like the linear approach so that I can just hear the flow. If I want to change or move a part or extend a part it's easy with Select By Time.

Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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Susan G
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/05 23:08:18 (permalink)
AndertonSONAR users are simply a better class of people.

 
Wow. That's quite a statement. Some of my best friends use other DAWs (as do I at times.) Maybe you left out a smiley?
 
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TheMaartian
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 09:12:45 (permalink)
Anderton
Joined yesterday, seven posts.
 
The lack of courtesy shown to the company that pays for this forum so he can promote another DAW is truly mind-boggling. 
 
SONAR users are simply a better class of people. You don't see them going into other forums and mocking other DAWs. They're probably too busy being productive and making music to spend time elsewhere.

I quit S1 when v3 was announced. Classic PreSonus. Marketing-driven. Lots of new products. No support for existing products. Audio interfaces whose drivers have NEVER worked for a large number of people (including me). Lots of frustrated users. NO formal PreSonus presence on the user forum (hangs the mods out to dry).
 
Do I go back to the PreSonus forum and post about how much I now dislike S1 and prefer SONAR? Nope. Why not?
 
Who the hell has the time? Not me.
post edited by TheMaartian - 2015/10/06 09:22:21

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#20
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 10:33:48 (permalink)
Susan G
AndertonSONAR users are simply a better class of people.

 
Wow. That's quite a statement. Some of my best friends use other DAWs (as do I at times.) Maybe you left out a smiley?
 
-Susan




No, it was in reference to the previous sentence - being better than the people who go into forums and show a distinct lack of courtesy to the company paying to keep the forum running. Plenty of users of other software that are better than that, too...for example you don't see Reason users come in here and complain about SONAR.
 
Don't forget I'm someone who uses other DAWs, too, so I visit other forums. I don't see SONAR people in there doing what this guy did. Perhaps the reason why lies in the post by the Maartian immediately following mine:
 
TheMaartian
Do I go back to the PreSonus forum and post about how much I now dislike S1 and prefer SONAR? Nope. Why not?
 
Who the hell has the time? Not me.


The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#21
pwalpwal
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 10:49:35 (permalink)
Anderton
Susan G
AndertonSONAR users are simply a better class of people.

 
Wow. That's quite a statement. Some of my best friends use other DAWs (as do I at times.) Maybe you left out a smiley?
 
-Susan




No, it was in reference to the previous sentence - being better than the people who go into forums and show a distinct lack of courtesy to the company paying to keep the forum running. Plenty of users of other software that are better than that, too...for example you don't see Reason users come in here and complain about SONAR.
 
Don't forget I'm someone who uses other DAWs, too, so I visit other forums. I don't see SONAR people in there doing what this guy did. Perhaps the reason why lies in the post by the Maartian immediately following mine:
 
TheMaartian
Do I go back to the PreSonus forum and post about how much I now dislike S1 and prefer SONAR? Nope. Why not?

Who the hell has the time? Not me.



i really don't understand why you bother with the tit-for-tatting - why even give it the time of day - the whole "defending the honour" thing (someone's wrong on teh interwebz!!?!?!111) is also something missing from other forums

just a sec

#22
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 12:41:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2015/10/07 06:53:31
pwalpwal
 
i really don't understand why you bother with the tit-for-tatting - why even give it the time of day



If someone asks a question, I feel an obligation to respond. I'll get over it someday...the result of moderating forums for 20 years, I guess.
 


The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#23
John
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 12:55:31 (permalink)
At last I understand. The forum is a Monty Python sketch!

Best
John
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Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 13:16:49 (permalink)
John
At last I understand. The forum is a Monty Python sketch!



No it's not. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#25
BobF
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 13:28:02 (permalink)
Abuse is down the hall ...

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#26
Beepster
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 13:52:10 (permalink)
Lookit... I'm sure the Baker's are aware of the desire for this type of workflow. I want it myself. In the meantime when I'm arranging/composing I lay down all the riffs, beats, bass and other "foundation" type components, trim them up nicely so they snap well and drag a hunk of each down the timeline (so they are out of my working area... so if the song is 3 mintues long all those clips are at the 5 min+ mark). This is MIDI or audio or whatever and the clips stay on their own tracks so I don't even have to think about what they are when arranging.
 
Then if I want something to repeat or switch to another riff I (with snap enabled) just move crap out of the way (slip edit or drag/snap or delete) and draw from my "riff/beat/bass" pool Ctrl copy dragging the various elements into the holes I created (and slip edit/multi paste them accordingly).
 
I build up the song and each part that way then once I'm happy with it I practice it all and record the finals.
 
I COULD loopty loop the buggers with a bit of in/out fades or groove looping or Cyclone/Matrix stuff but I prefer to have a full performance.
 
This workflow also allows for much more creativity IMO because maybe I want my "block" of beats to not actually be a "block". Maybe I want a beat to carry on while another (or new riff) is played or whatever. Of course that can be done with Block stuff too but by having to make the extra moves I gotta really think before I act and might end up iwth a more thoughtful composition.
 
Whatevs... I do want block stuff and I anticipate it coming to Sonar at some point but there are ways around this that aren't that hard to do. I may make a video if I ever get my sh*t together.
 
It just takes a little gumption and imagination to make happen at this point which I think most Sonar users have in spades.
 
Relying on block shiz for final production is just lazy and likely produce inferior results. Set up your song with it for sure but your better off using a sample/trigger or grooveclip scenario if that's your thing. I much prefer to just play/perform what I wrote whenever possible.
 
Meh.
#27
S.L.I.P.
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 15:31:22 (permalink)
n13L5
Studio One's "Arranger Track" function allows you to create song sections that cut through all project tracks, allowing you to easily copy or move a bridge or refrain to another section of the song with all tracks attached and aligned.
 

I've done this using the Matrix. I create clips, of the different sections of a song, and put them in cells, and arrange away.
#28
Anderton
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/06 17:30:59 (permalink)
S.L.I.P.
n13L5
Studio One's "Arranger Track" function allows you to create song sections that cut through all project tracks, allowing you to easily copy or move a bridge or refrain to another section of the song with all tracks attached and aligned.
 

I've done this using the Matrix. I create clips, of the different sections of a song, and put them in cells, and arrange away.



While that's not exactly what the OP wants, it's still a very clever way to test out arrangements in SONAR. Nice.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#29
Susan G
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Re: Looking for a way to duplicate Studio One’s "Arranger Track" functionality in Sonar... 2015/10/07 06:06:28 (permalink)
Anderton
Susan G
AndertonSONAR users are simply a better class of people.

 
Wow. That's quite a statement. Some of my best friends use other DAWs (as do I at times.) Maybe you left out a smiley?
 
-Susan




No, it was in reference to the previous sentence - being better than the people who go into forums and show a distinct lack of courtesy to the company paying to keep the forum running. Plenty of users of other software that are better than that, too...for example you don't see Reason users come in here and complain about SONAR.
 
Don't forget I'm someone who uses other DAWs, too, so I visit other forums. I don't see SONAR people in there doing what this guy did. Perhaps the reason why lies in the post by the Maartian immediately following mine:
 
TheMaartian
Do I go back to the PreSonus forum and post about how much I now dislike S1 and prefer SONAR? Nope. Why not?

Who the hell has the time? Not me.



Hi Craig-
 
Okay, I apparently misunderstood you when you said "SONAR users are simply a better class of people."
 
Thanks-
 
-Susan
 

2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAM
Windows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.
SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
#30
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