Helpful ReplyCWBRN-40015 - Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum

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Aksuaho
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2015/10/04 02:02:03 (permalink)
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CWBRN-40015 - Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum

I'm unable to edit any drums in the current Ipswitch Update because of a wrong and unusable transient detection. I also have an old X3e Installation of Sonar, there i works just fine. Here are two typical transient detections in Platinum, you see the problem.

post edited by Aksuaho - 2015/10/13 10:12:29
#1
brundlefly
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/04 14:05:32 (permalink)
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IIRC, the initial release of Platinum included a revised transient-detection algorithm, and I've also observed that it tends to place markers late. The old algorithm wasn't great, either, mainly in that it tended to create more superfluous markers, but I think it was better in most cases. It was easier to disable the few superfluous markers than it is to reposition many misplaced ones.
 

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#2
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/04 14:29:45 (permalink)
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This one came with Ipswitch, I tested the same with a roll back to Hopkinton and the algorithm seemed to be the new one but mostly correct...
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brundlefly
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/04 14:47:54 (permalink)
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I'm not using Command Center because I install to D:, so rollback is not an option. But I just checked a backup of Gloucester, and it gave pretty much the same results as Ipswich - lots of late placements compared to X3.

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Lord Tim
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/05 02:00:02 (permalink)
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I've actually found the slightly late markers to work a little better for me for a few things, but absolutely agree - they shouldn't be late, early, or have random "wait, why are you putting a marker THERE? There's no peaks at all" ones turn up. It's a hell of a lot more work manually moving them around.
 
I'd love to see something like an offset adjustment so you can shift them all early or late as you prefer, an upper and lower detection threshold, and maybe even a pre-detection EQ / Gate filter so we have really precise control about where they turn up.

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#5
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/05 02:50:42 (permalink)
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I make a living with music production, recording and editing drums and vocals, mixing is part of my daily work. If one of the basic functionalities isn't working I get real problems. In the studio where I work we have a PT HDX system but I also have Sonar installed there. Right now I have to constantly switch between the two programs. Drum recording and editing is still a PT job (elastic audio and warp is fast, handy and intuitive), but when it comes to Vocals speed Comping and ARA Melodyne wins the battle, also arranging, song creation and working with VST Instruments is more fun with Sonar. When it comes to make a mix I also prefer Sonar, mostly because of it's ProChannel stuff, but I also use ProTools when most of the recording has been made there.
Back to topic, the transient detection in Sonar is somehow annoying right now, they tried to make it more intelligent but as it is now, you cannot even use "tab" to jump to a tom and cut there, because you will kill the attack ;) Sry, this is a no go... Hope they fix it soon.
#6
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/05 03:07:53 (permalink)
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Update: In X3e the transient detection is working:
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brundlefly
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/06 19:15:05 (permalink)
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I agree, late markers are potentially a lot more destructive than early ones. As you pointed out, splitting at misplaced markers can chop off the attack, and stretching with a marker in the middle of an attack can cause double hits and other artifacts. 

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/07 01:08:13 (permalink)
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This looks serious ... I don't know how much Cakewalk staff reads this part of the forum.
 
I suggest alerting support and/or posting a link to this thread in the new problem reporter http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report

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#9
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/07 02:47:58 (permalink)
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Contacting Cakewalk was one of the first things I did, when I encountered the problem. I attached the screenshots to the problem report and hope they will care about this issue. This is a serious problem, which makes a huge part of the software unusable.
post edited by Aksuaho - 2015/10/07 03:01:10
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/09 08:50:41 (permalink)
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Can you paste the CWBRN number please..

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#11
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/09 12:00:37 (permalink)
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It's CWBRN-40015
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/13 08:55:11 (permalink)
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May a host or the OP please change subject title to:
CWBRN-40015 - Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum
 

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#13
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/14 03:17:26 (permalink)
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After 10 days still "new" and unreviewed, normal?
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/14 09:08:25 (permalink)
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The issue has gone to the problem reporter. It's over to the bakers over there, you should get notifications. These forums are only useful validating issues before you log them, the bakers sadly hardly ever give feedback in these forums :(

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#15
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/14 10:07:46 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info but I was refering to the personal problem reporter area in my account, which has still a new tag ;)
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/14 10:31:26 (permalink)
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You can write comments in the problem report (inside problem reporter itself) and ask them.

To be more specific however this is very normal. I have no idea how long it will take, pot luck.

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#17
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/30 03:47:30 (permalink)
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Actually it's been 2 updates and 6 weeks by now and I still see a "new" and not been "reviewed" when I click on this problem report. At least some kind of acknowledgment would be fine.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/30 08:27:57 (permalink)
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Aksuaho
Actually it's been 2 updates and 6 weeks by now and I still see a "new" and not been "reviewed" when I click on this problem report. At least some kind of acknowledgment would be fine.




Unless you already have contacted support, you should do right away ... or you could even try to PM Cakewalk staff ... it's probably not the recommended way of doing business, but as you depend on that feature for paid work every day I'd try to make some noise ... Noel & Cake seem pretty keen on fixing such issues once they are aware of it and that problem reporter might just be so full of older? issues that it could well be a giant black hole for DAW problems ...
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2015/10/30 08:38:44

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#19
jpetersen
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/10/30 13:44:59 (permalink)
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@Aksuaho: Thanks for the 1st hand PT and Sonar comparison.
Useful, especially from someone who really does use both.
 
#20
Aksuaho
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/11/21 03:33:41 (permalink)
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Still no fix annonced. I wonder why noone else is using Audiosnap?
Open a new project, drag any drumloop in the trackview, bounce to clips, activate audio snap, zoom in. there you go.
#21
Kevin Walker
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/12/10 12:30:28 (permalink)
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Hi, my issue/question (really a tame one compared to others I have read), when I record a midi track(Sonar Platinum) and then go into the "piano roll" editor, I click on a note all notes in the track are selected. I have to put a new note in the grid, delete it and then I can select individual notes. This is with every midi track, all of the time. I accept the idea that I may have an unwanted default selected, but I have been using Sonar since its' first version and this has never been the case. I can't imagine anyone wanting this feature. Any thoughts?
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brundlefly
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Re: Bad Transient Detection in Sonar Platinum 2015/12/10 19:08:25 (permalink)
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What version are you on? I think that behavior (PRV opening with everything selected) was changed back in X3 sometime. In any case, all you have to do is click in an empty area of the PRV or hit Ctrl+Shift+A to deselect everything.

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#23
Aksuaho
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Please Bakers, finally fix Transient Detection 2015/12/22 04:28:57 (permalink)
+2 (1)
Since - I don't know how many updates - it is a pain to move every automatic detected transient to the right place until you can edit it! Since I am the only one on this forum using Audio Snap, nobody else seems to be bothered by this. Here is a link to the original thread:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/CWBRN40015-Bad-Transient-Detection-in-Sonar-Platinum-m3295853.aspx
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Lord Tim
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Re: Please Bakers, finally fix Transient Detection 2015/12/23 10:42:04 (permalink)
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Hang on a minute, saying that you're the only person who uses Audiosnap and you're the only person bothered by it is a bit of a stretch. Even in this thread alone I commented about how I use it - and I do use it quite a lot on multitracked drums - and I agreed with you, it shouldn't be early or late, it should just work.
 
 

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Aksuaho
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CWBRN-45153 Reissued Transient Detection 2016/01/28 06:17:43 (permalink)
+2 (1)
After a half year not even been viewed I decided to reissue the problem. Just wanted you guys to know, that there is a new CWBRN in the aether, pipe or worldwidewobble... Maybe this time it will be read (at least) :)
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pwalpwal
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Re: CWBRN-45153 Reissued Transient Detection 2016/01/28 07:22:11 (permalink)
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what status does your bug report have? (like "new" or "submitted to development" etc?)

just a sec

#27
Aksuaho
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Re: CWBRN-45153 Reissued Transient Detection 2016/01/28 08:10:25 (permalink)
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In my account the CWRBN 40015 is still tagged "new", it hasn't changed for 7 months...
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azslow3
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Re: CWBRN-45153 Reissued Transient Detection 2016/01/28 13:11:16 (permalink)
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May be some clever user come here and explain what to do with transients. Cakewalk has proudly mentioned "Audiosnap improvements" this year. May be I am just stupid, but if transients are not correct any manipulations with them are kind of useless. I can not believe everyone who is happy with audiosnap fist manually set all transients...

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Aksuaho
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Re: CWBRN-45153 Reissued Transient Detection 2016/01/29 02:31:09 (permalink)
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I really wonder what the guys is taking so long to fix this... The bakers did a great job during the last year with bringing up new useful features and optimizing the workflow. But because of this problem you not even can tab to transients when editing audio, this is kind of ridiciolous... I always thought this is some kind of basic ;)
#30
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