Wookiee
Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
- Total Posts : 13306
- Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
- Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
- Status: offline
Dithering
If dithering is applied when you SONAR reference guide
“render” audio (bounce, freeze, or apply effects). Does this mean that when you export a finished mix it is dithered again? Is this in anyway detrimental to the audio?
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit Secondary i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8
|
shawn@trustmedia.tv
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2136
- Joined: 2008/12/06 09:41:18
- Location: Hastings, MN
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/10 12:15:03
(permalink)
I sometimes turn off dithering because of what you mentioned and I would in my mind think it also slows down the rendering process...non-dithering will not degrade of repeated bounces and should be faster! :0 -S
Studio SONAR X3. Axiom 25 midi controller, DUNE 2, Producer Content, Good Times, Bandlab Mojo 
|
Skyline_UK
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2133
- Joined: 2004/04/15 17:55:09
- Location: Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/10 12:19:03
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Anderton 2015/10/10 12:37:57
I always have dithering off except when I'm exporting to a different bit depth, which is what I understand is the occasion when it should be used.
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
|
drewfx1
Max Output Level: -9.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6585
- Joined: 2008/08/04 16:19:11
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/10 12:27:59
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Anderton 2015/10/10 12:38:23
Wookiee
If dithering is applied when you
SONAR reference guide
“render” audio (bounce, freeze, or apply effects).
Does this mean that when you export a finished mix it is dithered again?
Yes - if you have it turned on of course.
Is this in anyway detrimental to the audio?
Dither just adds noise. But at bit depths above 16 it really doesn't matter one way or the other in the real world. Unless you're doing null testing or DSP programming or something, in which case you will want to take it into account.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
|
Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 21:33:29
(permalink)
I always keep it on whatever. If for instance one does an export from 24bit to 24bit one assumes Sonar is clever enough not to apply it anyway... I would be interested to hear from Cakewalk to see if this assumption is correct. If it's the wrong assumption still should't make any real world difference. It is however a big mistake to turn off dithering when rendering to different bit depths from the source.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/11 21:44:56
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 21:40:17
(permalink)
And indeed it does look like the case... https://www.cakewalk.com/...mp;help=Mixing.61.html'SONAR uses dithering WHEN you export a higher-bit file at a lower resolution, or lower the bit depth of a project’s audio files by using the Utilities > Change Audio Format command, or when you “render” audio (bounce, freeze, or apply effects)' So no unnecessary duplication. Just keep it on.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/11 22:04:29
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 21:40:18
(permalink)
Dupe. It's is a pity however that the forums isn't as good as Sonar when it comes to duplication...
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/11 21:50:24
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
ltb
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2707
- Joined: 2005/06/19 13:34:08
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 22:13:10
(permalink)
You only need to dither once & at the final stage of exporting the master. For cd 16b, 24b dither for other formats such as mastered for iTunes.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 22:23:25
(permalink)
carl
You only need to dither once & at the final stage of exporting the master. For cd 16b, 24b dither for other formats such as mastered for iTunes.
Yup and that's exactly what happens if you keep dither option on all the time. The other scenario is you need to dither when you import samples of a different bit rate into the project.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/11 22:33:48
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 22:33:52
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
carl
You only need to dither once & at the final stage of exporting the master. For cd 16b, 24b dither for other formats such as mastered for iTunes.
Yup and that's exactly what happens if you keep dither option on all the time.
The other scenario is you need to dither when you import samples of a different bit rate into the project.
Hmm. Not different, just lower. If the imports are of a lower bit rate than the project, then you don't need to dither. 16 bit source audio is perfectly happy in a 24 bit environment. The only time you should ever dither anything is when reducing its bit rate.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/11 22:36:49
(permalink)
John T
Doktor Avalanche
carl
You only need to dither once & at the final stage of exporting the master. For cd 16b, 24b dither for other formats such as mastered for iTunes.
Yup and that's exactly what happens if you keep dither option on all the time.
The other scenario is you need to dither when you import samples of a different bit rate into the project.
Hmm. Not different, just lower. If the imports are of a lower bit rate than the project, then you don't need to dither. 16 bit source audio is perfectly happy in a 24 bit environment. The only time you should ever dither anything is when reducing its bit rate.
Right - indeed lower sorry. Regardless Sonar will handle that all automatically if you keep the option on.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/11 22:46:31
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Wookiee
Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
- Total Posts : 13306
- Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
- Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/12 07:08:42
(permalink)
Thanks I was just looking for some views from other peeps so I could help out a friend who is/was confused.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit Secondary i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8
|
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/12 11:20:22
(permalink)
I have pretty much given up dithering, and am now concentrating on doddering. I expect it will not be long before I need to consider dribbling.
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/12 17:05:43
(permalink)
Amateur.
I've been dribbling for years - it's the drooling I'm looking forward to.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/12 18:13:58
(permalink)
slartabartfast
I have pretty much given up dithering, and am now concentrating on doddering. I expect it will not be long before I need to consider dribbling.
I believe gearslutz have created 3 individual forums for this..
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/12 18:23:29
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
slartabartfast
I have pretty much given up dithering, and am now concentrating on doddering. I expect it will not be long before I need to consider dribbling.
I believe gearslutz have created 3 individual forums for this..
Looks like I've found a new home.
|
skinnybones lampshade
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 530
- Joined: 2012/09/04 14:37:30
- Status: offline
Re: Dithering
2015/10/12 22:26:13
(permalink)
|