AnsweredCan Bus Volume be automated ?

Author
squonk2
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 48
  • Joined: 2015/09/25 20:57:22
  • Status: offline
2015/10/12 11:32:51 (permalink)

Can Bus Volume be automated ?

I have drums (all drums from a kit) sent to a Drum Master bus (so I can control the volume of the overall kit).  Is there a way to automate the bus volume using an envelope similar to how I can automate a track volume with an envelope ?  I now how to use volume envelopes on the individual drum tracks (i.e. snare, tom, etc.), but is there a way to do that for the whole kit via the bus ?
#1
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/12 11:54:46 (permalink)
Yes you can. Volume automation is simple in the buss. Use the filter to set what automation you want to have. 

Best
John
#2
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/12 21:13:57 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby squonk2 2015/12/01 20:55:20
I actually do this all the time on various buses, and also on the Master bus.  Although I don't typically use fade outs, I still often fade the last sustained notes on Master for a smoother ending.  Also, I may want all guitars to come up a little a certain point, etc.
 
I actually send everything to a bus so I have a drum bus, vocal bus, keyboard bus, guitar buss, etc.  I even have a bass bus even if there is only one bass.  My reason is that I get all the movements automated in the tracks, and then I can change overall levels in the bus without messing up all my mixing work.
 
Note that when you click the filer and choose Automation in the track, there is a choice for Volume.  For some reason, although the bus automation works the same way, the choice is Bus Output Volume.  I'm nor sure why there is a difference in terminology but perhaps that is confusing.

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#3
TimV
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 183
  • Joined: 2010/01/01 16:20:51
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/13 11:27:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Milton 2015/12/06 01:33:59
konradh
I actually do this all the time on various buses, and also on the Master bus.  Although I don't typically use fade outs, I still often fade the last sustained notes on Master for a smoother ending.  Also, I may want all guitars to come up a little a certain point, etc.
 
I actually send everything to a bus so I have a drum bus, vocal bus, keyboard bus, guitar buss, etc.  I even have a bass bus even if there is only one bass.  My reason is that I get all the movements automated in the tracks, and then I can change overall levels in the bus without messing up all my mixing work.
 
Note that when you click the filer and choose Automation in the track, there is a choice for Volume.  For some reason, although the bus automation works the same way, the choice is Bus Output Volume.  I'm nor sure why there is a difference in terminology but perhaps that is confusing.


I really like your idea of putting even a single track into a bus to adjust the mix volume without affecting the track's automation. I guess it can be with gain, but I like this better, being able to use the fader. Thanks for sharing it.

HP Pavilion Desktop
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor
8GB RAM
Windows 10 64-bit
Cakewalk by Bandlab
Sonar Platinum
Sonar 8.5 Studio Edition
Sonar X1 Studio Edition
Sonar X2 Producer
Sonar X3e Producer
 
#4
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/13 21:14:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joel77 2015/10/14 10:16:08
TimV
I really like your idea of putting even a single track into a bus to adjust the mix volume without affecting the track's automation. I guess it can be with gain, but I like this better, being able to use the fader. Thanks for sharing it.



Konrad has described a useful technique, for sure. But it sounds like you may not aware of Offset Mode, which can change track volume without affecting a track's automation. If you group multiple faders, you can use Offset Mode to vary all of them simultaneously without have to use a bus.
 
But I will say this: I think the next update is going to blow some minds when it comes to tracks, buses, and mixing...

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#5
Vastman
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2508
  • Joined: 2006/08/30 02:49:18
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/13 21:47:44 (permalink)
uh-oh.....
Craig... my mind's in bad shape already..
 

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat 
#6
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/13 22:14:09 (permalink)
Vastman
uh-oh.....
Craig... my mind's in bad shape already..



Thanks for the heads-up. I'll ask Cakewalk if it might be a good idea to have people sign a release before they're allowed to download the next update.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#7
Anonymungus!
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 259
  • Joined: 2014/09/05 16:08:43
  • Location: Nice, Ca
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/13 23:06:08 (permalink)
So, the big upgrade is the next one!  Thanks for the heads-up Craig. Really looking forward to track-to-track routing.

Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime, Windows 10 x64, Intel Quad Core CPU@3.40GHz, 8GB RAM, (2)1.5T Hard Drives, Presonus AudioBox 44VSL, Roland A-500Pro MIDI Controller & lots more stuff
  
#8
TimV
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 183
  • Joined: 2010/01/01 16:20:51
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/14 20:54:04 (permalink)
Anderton
TimV
I really like your idea of putting even a single track into a bus to adjust the mix volume without affecting the track's automation. I guess it can be with gain, but I like this better, being able to use the fader. Thanks for sharing it.



Konrad has described a useful technique, for sure. But it sounds like you may not aware of Offset Mode, which can change track volume without affecting a track's automation. If you group multiple faders, you can use Offset Mode to vary all of them simultaneously without have to use a bus.
 
But I will say this: I think the next update is going to blow some minds when it comes to tracks, buses, and mixing...


Thanks for pointing that out, Craig. A useful feature that I hadn't been aware of.

HP Pavilion Desktop
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor
8GB RAM
Windows 10 64-bit
Cakewalk by Bandlab
Sonar Platinum
Sonar 8.5 Studio Edition
Sonar X1 Studio Edition
Sonar X2 Producer
Sonar X3e Producer
 
#9
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/15 23:51:30 (permalink)
Craig is my hero. That said, nothing has caused me more grief than Offset mode.  It is useful and many people love it.  I do not because it is way too easy to lose track (no pun) of where you are in a mix.  If you ever turn it on unintentionally, you will create a big mess.  I have disabled the shortcut key for Offset.
 
But that is just my personal issue.  If you can keep that demon under control, it will, as Craig says, allow you to make adjustments without screwing up your fader moves.  Just be careful.

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#10
thedukewestern
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 387
  • Joined: 2008/04/14 12:06:59
  • Location: NY
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/16 10:08:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby lingyai 2015/10/18 00:54:20
An easy way to get "there" with any automation is to simply click the "W" - for "Write" in the mix window (console view) - and then manipulate the channel strip - volume - pan - etc.  This is helpful in my experience  as sonar automatically creates an envelope for the parameter you want to manipulate.  Say - you want to add a high shelf to an eq on your guitar buss - but only for the chorus.... click the W - open the lug in and just click and drag the eq in real time and sonar creates the specific envelope for you.  There are times in a mix when I will want to do a complex effect manipulation - like for example - on the last note of a rock star guitar solo - lengthen a decay time of a reverb, while also increasing the intensity, spread, and mix of it.   For something complex like this - its super easy in sonar:
 
Go to the last note - arm the "write" feature - open the reverb plug in - press play and simply click on each of the controls I want to manipulate - in this case - decay, drive, spread, and mix.  Sonar creates each of these envelopes individually, Ill then loop the section of the audio and go back in and fine tune the effect automation.  
 
MAKE SURE YOU TURN THE WRITE COMMAND OFF so you dont dig yourself a hole=-)
 
 

Be the first one who thinks that you can
 
Sonar Platinum, Windows 7 64 bit - clean install January 2016, Focusrite Pro 40, Outboard Pres, Native Instruments Komplete, Izotope, PSP, Melodyne, Vegetarian
#11
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/16 11:10:50 (permalink)
You can draw automation in buses, the problem is that the Aim Assist line, which is so useful for positioning nodes and edits in the track pane, does not extend down into the bus pane. It's like they've never turned it on down there (hmm that didn't come out right )
 
I posted a feature request about this ages ago which got a good number of votes but who knows if Cakewalk reads the feature request forum. Anyway you can vote for it here http://forum.cakewalk.com...in-buses-m3102234.aspx

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#12
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/10/16 15:16:00 (permalink)
Sharke if they didn't, there would be no point in having a Feature Request forum.
 
And yes, the absence of Aim Assist in the Bus pane can be a complete PITA
post edited by Bristol_Jonesey - 2015/10/16 15:26:18

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#13
squonk2
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 48
  • Joined: 2015/09/25 20:57:22
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/12/01 20:57:45 (permalink)
Thanks konradh, that's exactly what I want to do.  But can;t find where to insert the bus filter... in this case for my drum bus to automate the bus volume... the only think I can see that sounds similar to Output Level is "Drum Send Level"... is that the same thing ?
#14
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Can Bus Volume be automated ? 2015/12/02 03:36:30 (permalink)
No.
 
Just right-click your bus fader and choose Write Enable. Play the project and move the fader.
 
When you've finished, do 2 things - 1st UNcheck Write enable, then 2 - go in and manually adjust/fine tune the individual nodes you just created

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#15
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1