Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken?

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Danirustic
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2015/10/28 21:27:13 (permalink)

Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken?

Hi, I know there is another thread talking about bad cpu perfomance on Jamaica update, but in my case it has nothing to do with the number of outputs used or "dynamic arming" during playback.
 
Normally I start from a template that has a lot of tracks with guitar rig (like 12-14 tracks).
Before Jamaica update, my cpus where low...until I started to record guitars and using all the tracks, and the cpu was going higher ecually. If I used all tracks...cpus will go high ecually.
 
Now when there is nothing recorded in any track and without pressing "play", all my cpus are very high, balanced but very high...like if there was audio recorded. Actually it seems sonar doesnt care if there is audio or not..its like guitar rig is procesing "nothing" but consuming full cpu. The only way to make cpu lower, is to bypass manually all the guitar rig plugins on the tracks not used.. But before update, I didnt need to do this, the cpu was low...until I startet to record more and more guitars.
 
I remember having to uncheck the option "Always stream audio through FX", so when the track has no audio..it should not hit the cpu perfomance.
 
I checked and unckeked that option with same results, its like that option is broken?
 
I also unchecked "allow arm changes during playback" without any diference.
 
Any sugestions??
 
Its a shame that now I need to bypass a lot of plugins when not used, I like to have the guitar rig presets in different tracks, and on some songs I use some tracks and on another songs I use another tracks, but all them were always "on".
 
Thanks

Intel i7 920, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64bits, RME HDSP 9652, Sonar X3c, Wavelab 7, Komplete, Waves etc
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    Synaptic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 05:40:53 (permalink)
    There is definitely something funky going on with the multithreading model in Platinum & I have FOUND A SOLUTION !
     
    I have been tearing my hair out with dropouts, glitches and a variety of performance issues for a while.
    My machine is pretty powerful; HP Z420 workstation, 24 gigs RAM, 6 core Xeon E5-1650 CPU @ 3.2 GHz etc.
    dedicated to Audio
    I have seen the same problems on multiple different HW; Pro Tools HD Native PCIe card, Presonus Firebox, M-Audio Fast track 400.
    Often the glitching will not stop audio playback & will not consistently occur.
    My projects are not large - maybe 5-10 instruments, 10 audio tracks & few MIDI tracks
     
    I have tried sooo many of the suggestions to help with performance improvement (Many thanks to Doc Avalanche for all suggestions)
    • Driver updates
    • NVidia graphics manual driver installs
    • Rescan of VST plugs
    • delete AUD.INI file
    • manual tweaking of Dropout threshold, Processor scheduling
    • disable Antivirus, onboard sound, networking etc.
    • disable allow arm changes during record
     
    none of these made any significant difference
     
    I analyzed my system with Theysemon DCP checker &  latencymon; there was nothing substantial in the reports that would indicate any specific issue with a driver or device.
     
    I ran a huge instrument session in Pro Tools 12 HD and it didn't miss a beat, and got a demo of Cubase & found the same thing - I could run very large instrument projects without the glitching I saw in Sonar.
     
    I made a change to the MixThreadCount (Configuration settings)  and BOOOOOM ! problems solved & performance dramatically improved
    Check this video out to see what I mean - you can see from the video everytime there was a glitch, my mouse would pause & the counters would pause.
     
    http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/co6UQzhjz8
     
    Chuck
     

    HP Z420 24 gigs Ram:Win 8.1 
    Eleven Rack :M-Audio Keyrig: Avid Artist Mix + Control
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    KPerry
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 06:40:43 (permalink)
    What did you change MixThreadCount to?
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    neirbod
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 09:07:40 (permalink)
    SynapticI made a change to the MixThreadCount (Configuration settings)  and BOOOOOM ! problems solved & performance dramatically improved
    Check this video out to see what I mean



    Excellent sleuthing. Thanks for sharing this!

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    Danirustic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 09:35:16 (permalink)
    Hi, thanks for your sugestion....but the thing is, that this only happens to me with the new Jamaica update!
     
    Before the update, my cpu perfomance was totally correct. Its just that now the plugins that are not used, they still eat cpu.
     
    Daniel
     
     

    Intel i7 920, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64bits, RME HDSP 9652, Sonar X3c, Wavelab 7, Komplete, Waves etc
    #5
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 09:43:07 (permalink)
    Synaptic
     
    I made a change to the MixThreadCount (Configuration settings)  and BOOOOOM ! problems solved & performance dramatically improved
    Check this video out to see what I mean - you can see from the video everytime there was a glitch, my mouse would pause & the counters would pause.
     
    http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/co6UQzhjz8
     
    Chuck
     


     
    Watched the video - I'm by no means a hardware/computer expert but it appears odd to me that performance improves when you limit processor usage to fewer threads. Should work the other way round - unless maybe half of them are virtual/hyper or whatever non-physical... or some other process is eating up some of those processing resources ...
     
    Here's more info in an older thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/34860
     
    I wish there would be official Cakewalk documentation on these settings so we do not have to use trial & error so frequently ...
    post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2015/10/29 14:10:45

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    KPerry
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 10:28:07 (permalink)
    Spurious ending / in your older thread link.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 10:59:10 (permalink)
    I wasn't on the forum in '04, so I'm not sure who "Master Chief" at Cakewalk was but he wrote the following in http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/34962 :
     
    "When MixThreadCount is set to zero, SONAR will allocate one thread per CPU. By setting it to 1, you are overriding this behavior and forcing SONAR to use a single thread even though you have multiple CPUs. 
    Your glitches and dropouts due to enabling MP may be caused by your driver or some plugin not being fully MP capable. Some plugins seem to keep "global" data that is assumed by the plugin code to be accessed by one thread at a time. This isn't true when SONAR 3.1 MP is enabled."
     
    I presume this still applies to Platinum, and the default should be zero.
     
    EDIT: Just watched the video, and see that it was zero to start; I initially thought Roberts's description was indicating that it had been lowered from some non-zero value.
     
     
    post edited by brundlefly - 2015/10/29 11:23:11

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    KPerry
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 11:41:55 (permalink)
    Master Chef was - I believe - previous CTO Ron Kuper.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 11:46:35 (permalink)
    Thanks, Kevin. That name rings a bell. "Chef" would have been apropos, but I double-checked, and it was definitely "Chief". 
     
    In any case, I'm curious to know how many others have issues when the default 0 is set for MixThreadCount in Jamaica Plain or any other release. This is the first time I've seen this setting mentioned in all my years around here.
    post edited by brundlefly - 2015/10/29 11:59:49

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    KPerry
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 12:29:10 (permalink)
    Nice typo on my behalf then :-)
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    Synaptic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 16:29:21 (permalink)
    KPerry
    What did you change MixThreadCount to?

    Hey KPerry,
     
    I have a 6 core machine (6 Physical & 6 logical)
    I limited Sonar to 4 of those cores & my glitching all but dissappeared
     
    Chuck

    HP Z420 24 gigs Ram:Win 8.1 
    Eleven Rack :M-Audio Keyrig: Avid Artist Mix + Control
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    Synaptic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 16:31:28 (permalink)
    Danirustic
    Hi, thanks for your sugestion....but the thing is, that this only happens to me with the new Jamaica update!
     Before the update, my cpu perfomance was totally correct. Its just that now the plugins that are not used, they still eat cpu.
     Daniel
     

    Hey Daniel,
     
    Jamaica plain is definitely worse though I was have issues before that but not as bad. It was a bit of a crap shoot - sometimes things would be fine, other times I couldn't get through a session without glitching and dropouts.
     
    Chuck

    HP Z420 24 gigs Ram:Win 8.1 
    Eleven Rack :M-Audio Keyrig: Avid Artist Mix + Control
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    Synaptic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 16:36:02 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    I wasn't on the forum in '04, so I'm not sure who "Master Chief" at Cakewalk was but he wrote the following in http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/34962 :
     
    "When MixThreadCount is set to zero, SONAR will allocate one thread per CPU. By setting it to 1, you are overriding this behavior and forcing SONAR to use a single thread even though you have multiple CPUs. 
    Your glitches and dropouts due to enabling MP may be caused by your driver or some plugin not being fully MP capable. Some plugins seem to keep "global" data that is assumed by the plugin code to be accessed by one thread at a time. This isn't true when SONAR 3.1 MP is enabled."
     
    I presume this still applies to Platinum, and the default should be zero.
     
    EDIT: Just watched the video, and see that it was zero to start; I initially thought Roberts's description was indicating that it had been lowered from some non-zero value.
     

     
    I will dig into this with tech support - My concern is that if it is a plug in or something else, we need a way to diagnose without the crazy hoops we have been jumping through recently. There have been so many red herrings It has done my head in & almost made me give up. Especially when people are calling out amazing performance & I am seeing a goose egg, especially with a modern workstation - I didn't skimp on CPU or RAM etc.
     
    I know in other programs they can put it into a logging mode that identifies the offending plug in & logs it so that the developer can be notified.
    Not sure if we can do this in Sonar
     
    Chuck

    HP Z420 24 gigs Ram:Win 8.1 
    Eleven Rack :M-Audio Keyrig: Avid Artist Mix + Control
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    arlen2133
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 16:40:22 (permalink)
    Chuck, based on what on what Brundlefly said, have you tried 6???
    Would that have the same results or revert back as when you had zero??

    Arlen
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    Mr Grant
    my music


    Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum (2017.09) & X3e , Windows 7 64 bit, Intel I5 3.4 Ghz, 32 Gbs RAM, Saffire Pro40, various pres and VSTi's.
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    Synaptic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 16:59:51 (permalink)
    arlen2133
    Chuck, based on what on what Brundlefly said, have you tried 6???
    Would that have the same results or revert back as when you had zero??




    Yes - I tried 6 and it was the same as 0 - CPU Spikes & drops out.
     
    so far, 4 seems to be the sweet spot for my CPU
     
    Chatting with tech support to get more info & try to resolve this
     
    Chuck

    HP Z420 24 gigs Ram:Win 8.1 
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 17:53:47 (permalink)
    There are confirmed issues that effect CPU with JP (first core overloads). It also crashes for me. I just rolled back and if I were you I would do the same, and try the next release. I cannot recommend it in it's current state myself.

    Since JP there has certainly been a large increase in performance or drop out related threads and posts, predictable really as this is a big change for Sonar this month...
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/29 18:05:35

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    arlen2133
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/29 18:31:39 (permalink)
    Thanks for responding Chuck.  Good info.

    Arlen
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    Mr Grant
    my music


    Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum (2017.09) & X3e , Windows 7 64 bit, Intel I5 3.4 Ghz, 32 Gbs RAM, Saffire Pro40, various pres and VSTi's.
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    Danirustic
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    Re: Jamaica update bad cpu perfomance "Always stream audio through FX" option broken? 2015/10/31 09:45:55 (permalink)
    Hi,
     
    Well, what I am doing now is bypasing all fx bins from the tracks that are not used and empty.
     
    When I start a new project, I have big templates with a lot of guitar rig plugins etc, before Jamaica, cpu was low until I started to record on tracks,  now is like all the guitar rigs plugins on empty tracks...are eating cpu until I bypass them.
     
    Doing that I have a normal CPU usage as before. Thats why I thought it has something to do with the option "Always stream audio through FX". With that option unchecked, it is supossed that if there is no audio on the track, the plugin should not eat cpu.
     
    Daniel

    Intel i7 920, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64bits, RME HDSP 9652, Sonar X3c, Wavelab 7, Komplete, Waves etc
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