KamiM
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Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
Hi all Kamelodic here with some questions about gain staging!
Ok so my first question, how many dbs should I be trimming to give myself more headroom?
Second question. Which trim plugin is better suited for SONAR PLATINUM?
Third question. Should I put it as an insert in the FX rack, or should I place it in an FX chain in the Pro Channel module?
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pwalpwal
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 11:59:02
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KamiM
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 12:00:45
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Gamsahamnida=Thank you
😊
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AT
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 12:31:45
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You shouldn't need to trim for any more headroom. Even garden variety interfaces hit -105 dB which should be plenty of headroom for any normal signal.
Can you supply an example of when you needed a trimmer other then the one at the top of each SONAR track?
@
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http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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KamiM
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 12:36:34
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Well I do for my master bus to stay at between -6 and -3dbs. Since compression and such can raise volumes
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TheMaartian
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:29:18
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kamelodic
Gamsahamnida=Thank you
😊
Greetings to Korea! Welcome! I never learned to speak Korean conversationally, but I could read it and phoneticize the syllables. I spent 9 months working there and needed to learn how to read a menu in a local restaurant, know what kind of animal protein I was getting and what kind of rice (I remember 37 different types to learn), and then be able to speak it well enough to get what I thought I was ordering!  Even today, 15 years later, I still use a dol sot bowl to eat my stir fries from, with the proper spoon and those fun-to-learn-how-to-use pressed-flat stainless steel chop sticks!  EDIT: I use the Trim pot in the channel strip to gain stage initially. I tend not to use FX plugins that don't have Output Gain control.
post edited by TheMaartian - 2015/11/02 14:47:25
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KamiM
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:51:13
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Ooh well thank you I'm only part Korean but I know some things
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batsbrew
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:51:35
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☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2015/11/02 15:22:26
proper gain staging does not require 'trimming' for headroom. optimally, you have the 'correct' gain coming into your convertors, and after that, you 'maintain' that gain staging no matter what inboard or outboard effects you apply. i cannot think of a better way to explain this, than with this image:  if you do not understand what this means, literally and historically, i urge you to begin your homework.
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Beepster
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:51:36
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☄ Helpfulby dongreywolf 2017/02/15 03:04:37
If your clips are being recorded without clipping just use the "Gain" knob at the top of the track strips to lower levels before they hit your Prochannel and FX Bin/Rack effects.
If your Prochannel or other effects are not being overloaded just turn down the track faders so they don't overload your "busses".
Also as you add effects make sure that they are not adding volume to the track or bus output. Almost ALL effects have an Output control. If you add an effect and it increases you track/bus volum output turn down the effect's Output volume. You can check this by looking at the track or bus meter and turning the effect on and off. Adjust the Effect's output volume until the meter level is even between off and on status.
And make sure you are sending your tracks to busses before they go to the master. So send all your guitars to one buss (or your rhythm guitars to one bus and your lead guitars to another bus) and all your drums tracks to one bus, etc... then all you busses get sent to the Master bus. It's a sub mix and you can control the volume of multiple tracks at once (and add extra effects if you want there too).
The signal chain goes like this in Sonar....
Clips > Gain Fader (which is the top of the track strip) > Prochannel/FX Bin (the order of those two depends on the Pre/Post status you select for the Prochannel) > Track Fader > Any busses you send your tracks to (this could be straight to the Master or as I suggested to sub busses and then out to the Master) > Audio output hardware
You can also put "Sends" in the track strip portion to "tap" the signal and send a part of the signal elsewhere and Sends also have Pre/Post statuses that need to be paid attention to. You can use these for parallel effects like compression or reverb or just simply send a signal somewhere else. The latest version of Sonar now has other send type capabilities but that might be getting too complex.
If your tracks are clipping while you record though BEFORE they get into Sonar that is something that needs to be dealt with outside of the computer... like turning down the Input trim on your interface, mixer or other external devices.
....
But the simple answer is... if you do not have anything clipping on your input hardware... just turn down the Gain Knob at the top of your tracks in Sonar.
Cheers.
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batsbrew
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:56:16
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KamiM
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:56:29
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Thank you very much! This was extremely helpful
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tlw
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 14:57:54
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☄ Helpfulby TheMaartian 2015/11/02 16:54:08
One useful Pro Channel trick is if you need to adjust gain and the plugin won't do it load an empty fx rack. Even without anything in the rack you still have access to the input and output volume controls. The Channel Tools plugin can also change volume levels.
I've never found the need for a third-party plugin that just changes the volume, all DAWs come with plenty of tools that can do that job, and have for as long as producing digital audio in computers has existed.
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Beepster
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/02 15:06:55
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tlw
One useful Pro Channel trick is if you need to adjust gain and the plugin won't do it load an empty fx rack. Even without anything in the rack you still have access to the input and output volume controls. The Channel Tools plugin can also change volume levels.
I've never found the need for a third-party plugin that just changes the volume, all DAWs come with plenty of tools that can do that job, and have for as long as producing digital audio in computers has existed.
Yes, scook pointed this out to me a while back (and I should have known it anyway but he has a way of cutting through my cluttered, chaotic bullsh*t reasoning). It's actually a great way to automate volume without having envelopes overtake more important controls like the Gain knobs and track Faders. There are other ways too but that's probably the easiest that guarantees no unwanted effects... and it can be put anywhere in the PC or FX Rack chain.
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cliffsp8
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/07 14:29:35
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Cliff DAW: W10 x64 Q6600, Intel MB, 4G Ram, 2x500GB 7200, 1x1TB 7200, Mobile 1: Win 10 x32 Lenovo X60, 3G Ram, 500GB 7200 Mobile 2: W10 x64 Lenovo T60, 3G Ram, 500GB 7200 I/O's: RME FFUC, MAudio FW1814, ADA8000, Echo Indigo, Alphatrack, various midi stuff
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dmbaer
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/07 16:43:02
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KamiM
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Re: Proper Gain Staging and a good Trim Plugin
2015/11/10 11:29:27
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Thank you all so much for the help!
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